Two Questions

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Jul 14, 2018
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Thanks for the input everyone. The differing opinions make me feel better about not knowing the right call!

As far as question #1, my confusion was whether the CF should get the error since she was the one who dropped the ball. Full disclosure, DD was the center fielder in question, so I didn't want to be that parent and give an error to the other kid. But it sounds like the player causing the drop should get the error. As Gags pointed out, it probably should be a hit as either player was on the run just to get there. That's how I scored it -- the pitcher's parent probably isn't happy.

The argument in question #2 was along the lines of what Man in Blue said. The other coach was arguing that the league had agreed to making the orange base off-limits at some preseason meeting. Our coach said he never agreed to any such rule, and the umpire was unaware of any directive to that effect. I was hoping that there was some official rule somewhere, but I guess as those bases go away there's not much point in detailing specific plays on a safety base.
 
Jun 6, 2016
2,714
113
Chicago
Thanks for the input everyone. The differing opinions make me feel better about not knowing the right call!

As far as question #1, my confusion was whether the CF should get the error since she was the one who dropped the ball. Full disclosure, DD was the center fielder in question, so I didn't want to be that parent and give an error to the other kid. But it sounds like the player causing the drop should get the error. As Gags pointed out, it probably should be a hit as either player was on the run just to get there. That's how I scored it -- the pitcher's parent probably isn't happy.

Does your DD catch the ball without the collision? It's definitely a judgment call, but I wouldn't think her just running a long way to get there would make it a hit. Outfielders often have to run a long way for a ball. Sometimes it's an error if they drop it. Sometimes not. Was she camped under it? Was she reaching out or down or something?

It's all subjective, of course, but one thing I'm pretty sure of is the CF wouldn't get the error there if one were assigned.
 
Jul 14, 2018
982
93
Does your DD catch the ball without the collision? It's definitely a judgment call, but I wouldn't think her just running a long way to get there would make it a hit. Outfielders often have to run a long way for a ball. Sometimes it's an error if they drop it. Sometimes not. Was she camped under it? Was she reaching out or down or something?

It's all subjective, of course, but one thing I'm pretty sure of is the CF wouldn't get the error there if one were assigned.

She absolutely did catch the ball. As I said in the OP, she held it for a beat -- I actually looked at the umpire hoping that he might have still ruled it a catch. No such luck. She caught it on the run, took maybe a full step before the 2B hit her. 2B outweighs DD by at least 20 pounds, so DD got flattened.
 
Feb 3, 2011
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the pitcher's parent probably isn't happy.

Don't do that. If you have agreed to be the team's scorekeeper, then call what you see. If you have a question about a specific situation, get a little help as you have done here and then make your ruling. If SS fields a hot shot cleanly, and then throws it away, you can't be worried that SS's mom is your bridge partner. Record the E6 and move on. The effort was extraordinary in the play you described, so no error, because you cannot assume the catch would have been completed.

"Defense can't touch the orange bag - batter-runner is automatically safe!" is a commonly-held myth that some coaches will take from one field to another with them. It's to every parent's advantage to learn the myths and to call them as such when they're wrong.
 
Jun 6, 2016
2,714
113
Chicago
She absolutely did catch the ball. As I said in the OP, she held it for a beat -- I actually looked at the umpire hoping that he might have still ruled it a catch. No such luck. She caught it on the run, took maybe a full step before the 2B hit her. 2B outweighs DD by at least 20 pounds, so DD got flattened.

I'd probably go E4 based on the description, but without video, it's impossible to say. It's also probably a tough call even with video.
 
Jun 7, 2019
170
43
The comments here concerning the defense touching the orange bag are correct. But while I believe in the safety value of the orange bag, I've always felt that the ruling we're discussing here has been horribly applied. It makes absolutely no sense to me. The orange bag is there for the safety of the kids. No need to have two different kids try to plant their foot on the same bag at the same time. But truth be told, if there were no safety bag, and a wild throw pulled the 1Bman off the bag, then there'd be no out if the runner hit the bag. Why should an errant throw from the infield be saved because the 1Bman hit something other than 1B, something that was designed to keep the runner out of a collision? I'd much prefer that if the errant throw pulls 1B off the bag, then she's off the bag.

Again, I get the rule. I just don't like it.
 
Oct 4, 2018
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Yeah, I'd get rid of the safety bag. I explained it to our team that it's really just one big "double base". Runner can step on either (in certain circumstances), fielder can step on either (in certain circumstances), umps will get calls right and wrong on it.

Girls will get plunked in the back on bunts and dropped 3rd strikes if there's one bag or two. Players will collide if there's one bag or two.


Another idea about the error call. Ask the coach. In Game Changer you can change it later after the game. You can ask the coach after the game how he/she wants to score it. Since parents are getting mad at coach all the time anyway, might as well put this one on them too. ;)
 
Jul 14, 2018
982
93
But truth be told, if there were no safety bag, and a wild throw pulled the 1Bman off the bag, then there'd be no out if the runner hit the bag.

This is a good point, and I think it was the crux of the other coach's argument. No orange safety base = no out, so why give an out just because something has been added to the field for safety's sake? I'm coming around to the idea that he was right. Thanks, testandor.
 
Jul 14, 2018
982
93
Another idea about the error call. Ask the coach. In Game Changer you can change it later after the game. You can ask the coach after the game how he/she wants to score it. Since parents are getting mad at coach all the time anyway, might as well put this one on them too. ;)

It's not that important, I'm sure that I'm the only one who cares. I just wanted to hear some other opinions on where the error should go.
 

MTR

Jun 22, 2008
3,438
48
The comments here concerning the defense touching the orange bag are correct. But while I believe in the safety value of the orange bag, I've always felt that the ruling we're discussing here has been horribly applied. It makes absolutely no sense to me. The orange bag is there for the safety of the kids. No need to have two different kids try to plant their foot on the same bag at the same time. But truth be told, if there were no safety bag, and a wild throw pulled the 1Bman off the bag, then there'd be no out if the runner hit the bag. Why should an errant throw from the infield be saved because the 1Bman hit something other than 1B, something that was designed to keep the runner out of a collision? I'd much prefer that if the errant throw pulls 1B off the bag, then she's off the bag.

Again, I get the rule. I just don't like it.

Upon the inception of the base by ASA, the defense could only us the colored portion if coming from foul ground. IOW, the defender must have gone into foul ground to get the ball, whether a throw or loose ball before they could use the "safety base" as it was called back then. When there was a change in the hierarchy, it was changed to allow the defense to use the base on an errant throw, including going up on a high throw and coming down directly on the second base.

I argued that such a change negated the benefit of the base while rewarding the defense for poor play. Unfortunately, the council was listening to someone other than the umpires.

OTOH, if players were taught how to properly receive a throw at 1B, there would barely be a need for the double base
 

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