Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch

Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.

Register Log in

ThundersDad

Feb 17, 2009
37
0
A Better Attack Posture ? ? ?

Hello Everyone, I'm new to this forum and I need some help. My DD just turned 13 and she cruises with her fastball from 47-50, less often at 51-52. She has a nasty back-hand flip change, and we are just now starting to work on the turn-over drop. My question is about her pre-motion. She started out 3 yrs. ago with the Michele Smith, and I believe the Bill Hillhouse pull the arrow back motion, now she is using the swingback, I know Hillhouse doesn't like the swingback. I will try and describe how she loads and can someone please tell me if she is losing drive off of the rubber with her move. She starts with her right foot on the top of the rubber, toes hanging off, and the left foot on the backside touching the rubber, with her left heel raised up and on her toe. She then presents the ball, then comes together with ball in glove about waist high. From here she pushes her hands out in front, ball and hand still in glove, and then starts down with her hands to her right leg with glove and hand, then ball in hand comes out and swings back. As she does this her left heel goes down, her weight goes back, standing tall with no waistbend, shifting her weight to her back foot. Then she starts back forward with her wieghtshift and her swingback hand. She seems to be coming off the rubber to tall and upright with not enough right knee bend. She does have some attack angle posture coming off the rubber, but it seems to me, not nearly enough. She does get a decent push-off, but it just seems that she is leaving a lot of power on the rubber. I know that everyone says that it is mostly style until toe touch, but shouldn't she explode off the rubber? I was just hoping that maybe some of the pitching coaches could explain the rocker move and weight shift a little more in detail, and how to get more in the attack posture. Some pithers just bounce down it seems. Just trying to learn to be more efficient. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, ThundersDad.
 
May 22, 2008
351
0
NW Pennsylvania
I actually followed the same path with my DD that you are on now. She is also 13 & started following a michelle smith video. Then I got the bright idea that she could pick up speed by changing her premotion & using a backswing.That resulted in basiclly 6 months of no improvement in either speed or control. A couple months ago I had Bill Hillhouse watch her video & do an analysis. He suggested to change her back for the reasond you suggested (losing explosiveness off the mound, as well as a stiff arm in the backswing losing elbow whip). The result has been a slow, but steady improvement in both speed & control. She still has minor things to fix in her mechanics, but the big change is over now. hope this helps.
 
Jul 14, 2008
1,728
48
......Then I got the bright idea that she could pick up speed by changing her premotion & using a backswing.That resulted in basiclly 6 months of no improvement in either speed or control......
I highly doubt that the use of a rocker motion was the culprit in your DD's lack of improvement........

The rocker and modified rocker motion has been used by the greatest female pitchers in the world, past and present..........

Used properly, the rocker/modified rocker motion promotes the highest rate of angular momentum/acceleration. Proper use of the high rate of angular momentum caused by the rocker is also the chief protagonist for a more explosive leg drive............And is probably why 90% of the best pitchers in the world use it.

The logical nature of these facts were probably WHY you decided to adopt this new motion initially......before abandoning them for the motion you are more familar with..........

Lack of understanding or ability to teach the proper mechanics of the rocker motion may be a more accurate reason for lack of improvement........
 
May 22, 2008
351
0
NW Pennsylvania
Thunder- I clocked a half dozen girls(14u) at our travelball practice today & they ranged from 47 to 54mph. im sure thjere are lots of girls out there on both ends of the spectrum. but IMO your DD is on par.

BM- you may very well be right, I am not a mechanical genius, but I do know what I experienced with my own DD...... If its workin I aint gonna try to fix it again!
 
Jul 14, 2008
1,728
48
BM- you may very well be right, I am not a mechanical genius, but I do know what I experienced with my own DD...... If its workin I aint gonna try to fix it again!
Don't blame you. Although your likely to sacrifice some velocity for "hiding the ball"..........;)
 
Feb 17, 2009
37
0
BoardMember, Could you please explain to me which rocker method of delivery that you prefer? I am still trying to learn some of these things myself, so that I can pass them on to my DD. Our choices of good pitching coaches here are slim and none. I am looking into getting my DD in with Mississippi States pitching coach ( Bo Reid ), originally from North Carolina I think. I still haven't heard anyone explain the weight transfer from front foot to back foot, then back forward to front foot in detail. I can see the videos of pitchers, but I can't see what they feel in their feet and legs as it is happening. It just seems to me that this IS very important in creating powerful momentum and explosion off of the pitching rubber. I really have NO problem with the swingback, and that is certainly what my DD is used to now. Here's the one thing that I think hurts her explosion or attack angle, when her arm swings back to it's furtherest point, her weight goes back with it, planting her left heel on the ground. Isn't she supposed to be forward in her attack posture with her right knee bent, ready to push off, when her swingback hand is all the way back? The very beginning of the hand motion, and the rocking back is where I need answers, what feels like what during this process? The one most used pitching coach around here teaches the facing the catcher drill with both feet flat on the ground and windmilling the arm by opening and closing your hips. He also teaches finishing and touching your right shoulder with your hand, then pointing your right elbow towards your catcher. We only went to him twice. I would glady put a video of my DD pitching on here if someone will explain to me how to do it? It's on a dvd. If I can get the video on here you guys will see that my DD's swingback arm is getting around behind her back sometimes, and she also seems to kick the horse back behind her with her pull foot sometimes also. I suspect that both of these things needs to be corrected, although they don't seem to hurt her control too much. I'm also interested in where the ball positions around the circle should be? Thanks to everyone in advance for your help. ThundersDad
 
Jul 14, 2008
1,728
48
The "super man" attack position.......

BoardMember, Could you please explain to me which rocker method of delivery that you prefer?............Here's the one thing that I think hurts her explosion or attack angle, when her arm swings back to it's furtherest point, her weight goes back with it, planting her left heel on the ground. Isn't she supposed to be forward in her attack posture with her right knee bent, ready to push off, when her swingback hand is all the way back? The very beginning of the hand motion, and the rocking back is where I need answers, what feels like what during this process?
From the begining...........RH pitcher.......Full rocker, not modified.......NOT FOR THE STEPPER........Only for the push and drag style........

With the ball in the throwing hand or glove (preference), hands relaxed at the sides, the pivot foot on the mound, ALL weight forward on a straight front (pivot foot) leg (stork position), and the back foot just toeing the back of the mound so the first forward cleat is against the back of the mound.........Heal up...........

Simaltaneously bring the hands together in front (present and fix grip), while rocking weight onto the back leg/foot (back heal drops to ground)...........Front leg straightens as well...........

Individual preference dictates where the hands are at the present position. Some like the hands somewhat extended from the body (distance varies, but elbow always bent). Some like the hands closer to the chest. Some like the hands just above the eyes and somewhat extended (very powerful rocker, and my preference). Some just below the eyes.........Regardless, at the present position, the weight IS back on the back foot.............

From this position, it's time to achieve the "super man" (attack) position with the rocker motion of the arms.........

The "super man" position is achived as the hands break and swing back. DO NOT push the hands OUT OR UP and then back.

Drop them straight down and back from where they are, and back into a position as if you were "flying" with your hands/arms back, KEEPING the weight on the back foot...........

The "super man" position with the weight maintained on the back foot should cause a slight forward bend in the waist setting up the attack position............A slight forward shift can occur at the very apex of the "super man" position, as the attack position is achieved, and flow begins forward........

As the hands/arms leave the "super man" position into the forward swing, the bodys weight shifts into the front leg, as it bends for power, and into the push, with the forward arm swing assisting in the explosive move off the mound.......

Personal preference dictates the length of pause (if any) from the presentation position and into the "super man" position and back through the leg drive......

And there you have it.............

As she gets more comfortable, she'll start to "use" the proper transfer to gain more arm speed and power into the push..........

Jenny Finch as a 16 year old perfoming the full rocker..........See if you can see her "super man" position, and the concurent shift into the big push.......

 
Aug 21, 2008
869
28
Don't blame you. Although your likely to sacrifice some velocity for "hiding the ball"..........;)
I don't think I agree with that one.

And please know... I didn't invent or 'create' any way of pitching. I realize it's just semantics at play here but, this is not the "hillhouse move".


Bill
 

Latest threads

Forum statistics

Threads
34,353
Messages
499,798
Members
15,818
Latest member
martindales
Top