throwing at runners

[Gags]

Interesting, now I'll have to go read the rules. I can't see any way that a batter running to 1B, where she is allowed to be is out because the throw hit her in the helmet.

Or just watch the movie All Stars.

 

[EdLovrich]

A runner is considered outside the running lane if either foot is completely outside the
lane and in contact with the ground."

they are not allowed to be in fair territory, they must be in foul territory by the halfway mark

Not quite completely true. Presume a runner is running the last half of the distance to 1B straddling the foul line. By interpretation she is legal/illegal/legal/illegal depending on which foot struck the ground last (i.e. if her right foot was the last to hit the ground when the ball passes/strikes her, she was IN the lane and legal, even if the foot was ON the line and she was technically in fair territory)

 

[bmakj]

Not quite completely true. Presume a runner is running the last half of the distance to 1B straddling the foul line. By interpretation she is legal/illegal/legal/illegal depending on which foot struck the ground last (i.e. if her right foot was the last to hit the ground when the ball passes/strikes her, she was IN the lane and legal, even if the foot was ON the line and she was technically in fair territory)

find me an ump who is going to make that distinction by eye while lso watching the throw (have to make certain it is a decent throw). Also pretty certain if their left foot was in fair, but it comes of fthe ground, then it lands fair again, they are continuously in fair territory.

 

[EdLovrich]

find me an ump who is going to make that distinction by eye while lso watching the throw (have to make certain it is a decent throw).

Just pointing out this umpiring thing is not as easy as everyone seems to think it is at times.

pretty certain if their left foot was in fair, but it comes of fthe ground, then it lands fair again, they are continuously in fair territory.

Nope, each time the RIGHT foot comes down in the lane, the re-establish themselves as in the lane again.

 

[marriard]

find me an ump who is going to make that distinction by eye while lso watching the throw (have to make certain it is a decent throw). Also pretty certain if their left foot was in fair, but it comes of fthe ground, then it lands fair again, they are continuously in fair territory.

Actually, because it is a known case entry in the NFHS case book/exam question, it actually is something you look for on a bunt and a developing play where you believe there is a chance of the call happening. And in last touch was in fair ground, they are 'fair', if last touch was in foul territory they are 'foul'

Most of the time this is irrelevant because the runner is normally clearly on one side of the line or the other, but on a few occasions, I have actually had the 'in,out,in,out' steps going in my mind so if the ball did hit her I know which way to call it. I have never made the call because the throw has never hit the BR in this circumstance - but I was ready to do so if it happened.

BTW PU call. BU has the play at 1B.

 

[radness]

Most of the time this is irrelevant because the runner is normally clearly on one side of the line or the other,




but on a few occasions, I have actually had the 'in,out,in,out' steps going in my mind so if the ball did hit her I know which way to call it. I have never made the call because the throw has never hit the BR in this circumstance - but I was ready to do so if it happened.

BTW PU call. BU has the play at 1B.

Good the rulebook defined how to help umpires. But question of the body interfering still questions?

When you say clearly on one side of the line or the other...
*Are you still reffering to their feet? Both being on the same side as eachother?
Or can the runners body alone be enough to make the call regardless of feet?

Cannot say i have ever encountered a batter-running to 1st stratling the line who bunted and got pegged by a throw from me catching who wasnt called out.
must have timed my throw with excellence...pegging runner after their right foot left the ground

 

[marriard]

Good the rulebook defined how to help umpires. But question of the body interfering still questions?

When you say clearly on one side of the line or the other...
*Are you still reffering to their feet? Both being on the same side as eachother?
Or can the runners body alone be enough to make the call regardless of feet?

Cannot say i have ever encountered a batter-running to 1st stratling the line who bunted and got pegged by a throw from me catching who wasnt called out.
must have timed my throw with excellence...pegging runner after their right foot left the ground

Good point - It is feet. That is the thing that is defining whether they are in or out of the running lane.

Note: I have gone back and corrected my post to reflect that this is related to the running lane and is not a fair/foul thing (which would be determined by ball position at contact)

 

[bmakj]

Just pointing out this umpiring thing is not as easy as everyone seems to think it is at times.

Nope, each time the RIGHT foot comes down in the lane, the re-establish themselves as in the lane again.

so you are saying timing on throw has to catch them with left foot down? if so, absurd interpretation, sorry, parsing it way to fine. and I asm sorry, once the ball hits here, the BR does not freeze so you can see exactly where the foot was, so how do you know. and if you are watching feet, how do you know at what instant the ball hit her?

sometimes, you have to also look at the intent of the rule. The intent is to give a lane for the runner to run in, and the C to throw in.

and it depends on ruleset as well. USSSA rules simply say running, which is a continuouos action, nothing about feet being in contact with ground.

granted, weak point in NHFS ruleset, when parsed that closely. should be where the ball strikes her, in fair territory (out) or in the lane (safe if they beat any subsequent tag/throw). easy to make call, put your line of sight on line.

 

[bmakj]

and I will also start telling base runners to run with right foot just outside line, that way they have better than 50% chance (since while running, there are times when both feet are off ground, where are they then, in lane or not?, or both per Heisenberg?) of being safe from interference, and maximum chance of making thrower go around them.

 

[radness]

Good point - It is feet. That is the thing that is defining whether they are in or out of the running lane.

Note: I have gone back and corrected my post to reflect that this is related to the running lane and is not a fair/foul thing (which would be determined by ball position at contact)

Can you please (for wonderful discussion clarity )
Define what you refer to as
*the running lane.

As it is a different defined area than the foul line.
Thanks