This new training tool reflects a whole hitting philosophy...is it right?

[mann]

Mann, there are no swings or demos in the video I presented ... hence no GIFs to be made. The video is more a precursor leading to a basic description of ‘escape force’.

See if this helps ….

Wind and Sling Golf Swing Escape Force:

The first 40 seconds is good, just what Mankin says, and my belief also. i like how this guy says it too.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

The first 40 seconds is good, just what Mankin says, and my belief also. i like how this guy says it too.

At about the 22-sec to 27-mark he speaks of the arms and club responding to "that circular energy". That circular energy is the 'pivot' I speak of ... the "rear side lateral bend" ... "lateral tilting process" ... the "brushing off of the rear butt cheek to start the swing" ... the "twisting of the gut out of the way" ... the "extra stretch" ... and that, coupled with a goal/objective/approach/movement-pattern of keeping the lead-arm not folding, but either at a fixed or increasing angle, will then have the swing becoming as simple as "Pivot the Swing" ... which is what I use in place of "Shift AND Swing" or "Shift THEN Swing" ... it's more "Pivot The Swing".

You speak of 'connection'. MarkH speaks of 'disconnection'. I better relate to MarkH's usage than your usage. My understanding of Mark's usage of 'disconnection' is that of the lead-arm (upper lead arm) swinging away from the body prematurely. If you have a goal/objective/approach of keeping the angle in the lead-arm relatively fixed, to increasing, all the way to and through impact, then you are more apt to keep the upper lead arm more 'hugging' of the torso ... and if you do that then you'll extract energy for the swing to be slung/cast/thrown/flailed as described. That lead-arm type action of relatively 'hugging' the torso should be what you describe as 'connection' ... but often I feel you are describing something quite different and more confining.

Someone that intentionally folds the lead arm at swing initiation ... or shoves the lead elbow forward 3" at swing initiation ... is bypassing this energy flow.

Someone that attempts to swing with level shoulders is also bypassing the true pivoting action that leads to this energy flow.

The swing can really be quite simple ... 'Pivot The Swing'.

 

[mann]

The kinetic chain does not allow a fixed or rigid "connection", and i can see some picture as a rigid connection when i use the term "hitters box". At one time i would have said yes, that is what i mean.

It was years ago i started to understand how whip works, and give a new twist and use this box stuff as a "framework" You have me say in the past, the box is not rigid, or connected tightly to shoulder rotation, but lags slightly

The "circular energy" i call "turning on" you turn more on the inside pitch, and less on the outside pitch. Either arm falling to far behind upper torso rotation , will cause losing that circular energy .
I do not like a long lever, i like front arm flex. I just noticed Cabrera wears a flex plate on his front arm, and it does not straiten completely during extension.
I have plenty of girls that "drape" that front arm, but i prefer Cabreras flexed front arm. this way one should not have to pull in that long front arm, to get inside the inside pitch.
"pivot the swing" paints a good mental image.

 

[Mark H]

MarkH speaks of 'disconnection'. I better relate to MarkH's usage than your usage. My understanding of Mark's usage of 'disconnection' is that of the lead-arm (upper lead arm) swinging away from the body prematurely. .

Not my word but yes my usage. Connection, in my usage, means connecting the energy of the rotating torso to the bat without loss. If I push my hands forward, leave them behind, push them down below the swing plane during rotation etc I have introduced an inefficiency and part of the energy of the rotating torso is wasted. An extreme "push" disconnect might look something like this. Photo 18 of 31, Analysis
No one really looks this bad though this nonsense is still taught. Can't say whether the gadget in the video clip is still for sale but it used to be sold as a training aid. I used to drive a lot of traffic to their website mocking this product. But again, this is not the only kind of disconnection. It's a function question rather than a form question.

 

[tjintx]

Not my word but yes my usage. Connection, in my usage, means connecting the energy of the rotating torso to the bat without loss. If I push my hands forward, leave them behind, push them down below the swing plane during rotation etc I have introduced an inefficiency and part of the energy of the rotating torso is wasted. An extreme "push" disconnect might look something like this. Photo 18 of 31, Analysis
No one really looks this bad though this nonsense is still taught. Can't say whether the gadget in the video clip is still for sale but it used to be sold as a training aid. I used to drive a lot of traffic to their website mocking this product. But again, this is not the only kind of disconnection. It's a function question rather than a form question.

A lot of confusing directions referenced in that post. Forward? Would that be to the side(across the body, laterally) toward the oncoming pitch OR away from the body(forward toward the opposite batter's box, pre-rotation). Leave them behind? Again same questions but in the opposite direction? Pushing them down, I think I get that one, but just in case. do you mean pushing them down across the body forward OR down across the body behind OR just extending the arms prematurely in general?

 

[Mark H]

Perhaps the linked video can help you on the meaning of push disconnect . By "forward" I mean toward the pitcher. "Leave them behind" seems clear but if my torso starts rotating and elbow extension or some such during the first part of upper torso rotation means the hands don't start moving till way later then I've failed to efficiently connect the rotating torso to the bat. In any case, try not to focus on the specific examples. Is it clear that as much of the energy of the rotating torso as possible should be transferred to the bat? That would be a good thing. If some of the energy of the rotating torso is wasted, that would be a bad thing. A particular athlete can only generate so much energy. It would seem definitional that transferring as much of that as possible into bat speed at contact would be the goal. Failing to connect some of the energy of the rotating torso to the bat in such a way as to maximize quickness and bat speed would be what some call disconnection. The ways to disconnect are limited only by the creativity of inefficient hitters.

 

[Mark H]

MarkH speaks of 'disconnection'. I better relate to MarkH's usage than your usage. My understanding of Mark's usage of 'disconnection' is that of the lead-arm (upper lead arm) swinging away from the body prematurely. .

I should add good connection doesn't mandate a particular proximity of the lead arm to the chest as proven by various elite hitters.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

MarkH speaks of 'disconnection'. I better relate to MarkH's usage than your usage. My understanding of Mark's usage of 'disconnection' is that of the lead-arm (upper lead arm) swinging away from the body prematurely. .

I should add good connection doesn't mandate a particular proximity of the lead arm to the chest as proven by various elite hitters.

My understanding of disconnection, as I thought you used the term, was from the link you have used that includes words of disconnection under a hitter that looks to disconnect with their lead arm.

 

[tjintx]

I should add good connection doesn't mandate a particular proximity of the lead arm to the chest as proven by various elite hitters.

Perhaps referencing connection is a the problem in and of itself. It becomes a goal, and then it becomes a problem.

 

[Howe]

Not my word but yes my usage. Connection, in my usage, means connecting the energy of the rotating torso to the bat without loss. If I push my hands forward, leave them behind, push them down below the swing plane during rotation etc I have introduced an inefficiency and part of the energy of the rotating torso is wasted. An extreme "push" disconnect might look something like this. Photo 18 of 31, Analysis
No one really looks this bad though this nonsense is still taught. Can't say whether the gadget in the video clip is still for sale but it used to be sold as a training aid. I used to drive a lot of traffic to their website mocking this product. But again, this is not the only kind of disconnection. It's a function question rather than a form question.

Yeah, watch Manny practice a "push disconnect" as he envisions the hand-path to the inside fb.