Telling the coach to take a hike...or burning bridges?

Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch

Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.

Aug 1, 2019
962
93
MN
No. Actually I was told last night that we offered her. My daughter said she's happy to have the pitching relief, and the coach hasn't talked to me about it. So we'll see how it goes, but not the answer I was hoping for. Though hopefully it will help my daughter to not have to throw every inning like she did this year.
Please let us know how it goes after you've had some games!
 
Jun 8, 2016
16,118
113
As a dad I got tested on this for the 1st time last month. Daughter, 14, joined a 16u travel team (15 players) here in Socal in May. DD was already on her school's varsity team before covid, throws consistently 58-60 as RHP,1st. & 3rd. She attended every practice, workout, friendlies, and hussled throughout. She absolutely loves her teammates and coaches and was touted #2 by the coach behind a starting 17yr, which was fine by us, we wanted her to learn. Then we went to the tourney in Utah last month for (7) games total, My daughter starts the 2nd game with the 2nd unit and is pulled during the 1st inning after giving up 4 runs from a mashing team who hit on outside and high pitches. I didn't question the decision, you have to do what you need to do to win, we end up losing 12-5. At the end of the game I hear the coach telling the group that "you have to make the most of your shot and opportunities, I don't want to have to put my 1st team in to win every game", (which i know she was directing at my daughter) then to the side the coach tells my daughter she now going to be the reliever for the rest of the tournament to the #3 who finished the game. She never played nor batted at the tournament, maybe warmed up twice, and we ended up being 3 and 4 overall. Also that team DD faced ended up scoring 85+ runs, the most across 140 teams that attended the tourney, 14u-18u. She was still a great teammate throughout even though she was disappointed.

I had to bite my tongue at every game in Utah with my wife giving me that look as squeezed my fists tight. Mind you too DD can hit, was #6 on her varsity and could easily bat #7-#9 on this 1st team and even more so on the 2nd team, along with other positions she can play, but never got a chance. I know they didn't give her a fair shake, whether it was her age or because we joined the club later. I believe the coach had girls they were comfortable with and favored since some of them had been playing before January with the team. In the end I had a talk with my daughter that she just had to work harder and longer than anyone else at her next practices and make it difficult not to stand out.

Currently, the organization is making changes, coach might not be there anymore, and now wants her team to stay with her and form they're own team. We'll pass.
I would never have my kid play up in age (unless it was a guest type deal) unless I knew for sure my kid was in the top 1/3 of the team. Too easy to use age as an excuse to sit her. Live and learn.
 
Jun 16, 2010
259
28
True story

At 14u second year, my daughters coach picked up a pitcher for nationals. She lived 2hrs away, couldnt play regular season with us. HER COACH DIDNT PITCH HER. She played 3B on her local team.

Skip to end of that story.... My daughters coach worked with her. She played with us the next summer......and 18Gold....was NCAA freshman of year , took her college to WCWS as a freshman.

There's a lot of really crappy coaches out there.... Don't take it personal. Find a better fit. And especially a really really good pitching coach.
 
Last edited:
Aug 4, 2020
13
3
We are living through a very similar situation as the OP. We are wrapping up our second year with a team we joined because we believed in the coach and coaching staff. They were committed to the girls development. This year they brought on an assistant coach that is a couple years out of college and super competitive. She had some trouble on the team she head coached last year. She will be taking over the team the season after next. Midway through this year things changed from a development mindset to a win at all cost mindset. These girls are good, probably a top 10 12U team in the state. The difference between the "starters" and girls sitting the bench is minimal. Up until 3 weeks ago all of the discussions were about keeping the team together. Then we get the email. Then we get the phone call. Conversation with the coach:
  • Your daughter is an A Batter
  • Your daughter is a B infield. She is lights out on hard hit balls at third but needs a little work on slower plays
  • We would love to have your daughter back on the team unless......we find somebody better
  • If she does get a spot on the team she will only play pool play and maybe get flexed in for batting
These girls are 13 playing B, close to A level ball. When they lose, it is because they can't get the bats going collectively. If you are a coach serious about development how can you write off that a girl playing just as well as the other girls on the team, in some cases better is not going to get any better? I know that the coaches out there will say I have parent goggles on but multiple parents and her close friends don't understand why she is not playing.

I probably incorrectly chose to have a second conversation with him when he walked up to me and asked me if I had any more questions. I didn't tell him off, but let him know I didn't understand his decision and asked him if there was something else he wasn't telling me. I made it a point to let him know that my daughter made the effort to ask him what she needed to do to get more playing time and he didn't follow his own rules for asking about playing time. He couldn't even provide feedback other than "Your still my girl at third". I told him that I wish he would have just said he was going to cut her rather than make her feel expendable. Making her feel like she is not his first choice is worse I think.

Luckily this week we have one offer for another team, another we think coming over the weekend and one last tryout tonight.

Thanks for listening and sorry it is so long. The last week and a half has been heart breaking as a parent to watch. I don't understand the mentality out there that it is OK to treat 13 year olds like some of these programs do.
 
Jun 16, 2010
259
28
Part of growing up.
Winning is important....always. Parents are paying many thousands of dollars to be competitive and get best development and exposure. Doesnt matter what you think.......your not the coach. If you're not happy, find a better place.

I listened to parents in similar situations whose daughters got limited playing time or in some cases werent taken the next year.....one forwarded the coaches review of her daughter to my wife and ask what to do? my wife didn't even respond she said I'm going to pretend I didn't get that. It's hard when you're friends with these people and you usually just shrug your shoulders. But everyone knows who they want in that lineup or running on base in tight games. They won't always say that, because they're your friends.

We once had substandard girls on elite team. one of the coaches coach the high school and took one of his high school players as sort of an extra player to give her some better development and experience in the summer. We lost games because of that girl. Did not make people happy at all. She did end up playing juco.
 

Top_Notch

Screwball
Dec 18, 2014
512
63
You can't win the argument, so it's best not to have it. My rule is that you have one vote, and sometimes you have to vote with your feet. I did publicly thank them for their time and effort and left it at that.

DD is going to 16U next year. She is not a team hopper, as she's been on two teams in 7 years of playing travel softball. Well, as of this year, it will be three. We had a lot of issues with negativity and blatant favoritism (coaches' kids) so DD made the jump, as well as several others on the team. There's no room for daddy ball at 16U A IMO. Now I know a lot of comments from our coach and casual observers is that parents overrate the talent of their own kid. But once word got out DD was leaving she had numerous coaches calling from teams she played against not just asking to try out but bidding her based on her past performance. So, it's not a talent level issue. Her new coaching staff (both women, both former college players, both positive) are a much better fit. They don't have an axe to grind, but I guarantee that when we run into her old team DD will need no motivation.
 
Feb 20, 2020
377
63
Part of growing up.
Winning is important....always. Parents are paying many thousands of dollars to be competitive and get best development and exposure. Doesnt matter what you think.......your not the coach. If you're not happy, find a better place.

I listened to parents in similar situations whose daughters got limited playing time or in some cases werent taken the next year.....one forwarded the coaches review of her daughter to my wife and ask what to do? my wife didn't even respond she said I'm going to pretend I didn't get that. It's hard when you're friends with these people and you usually just shrug your shoulders. But everyone knows who they want in that lineup or running on base in tight games. They won't always say that, because they're your friends.

We once had substandard girls on elite team. one of the coaches coach the high school and took one of his high school players as sort of an extra player to give her some better development and experience in the summer. We lost games because of that girl. Did not make people happy at all. She did end up playing juco.

Winning is important ... well, never in softball. Never. It's fun. Never important.

Softball is a game played by a bunch of kids. it helps them develop mental stamina and athletic prowess and hopefully character they can take to the rest of their real life. But winning a game? Aside from the momentary joy it brings, it means absolutely, positively nothing. You know what a 14-year-old girl gets from throwing a perfect game? In 10 or 20 years she can chuckle and say, "yeah, I threw a perfect game once" as she's talking to her friends. Nothing more substantial than that. It is insane that an adult, who presumably has at least two decades of life experience on the kids playing, would see softball as anything more than a diversion that provides exercise and occasionally some charachter development.

You really used the word "substandard" to describe a high school kid? And then, in a team game, you attributed multiple losses to her, and her alone? She's the only player who didn't get on base every at bat? She both pitched, caught and fielded every play? That's some strange definition, and a very strange interpretation of youth sports. Let me provide you a d different one: They don't matter. The point is fun, competition and community/friendships, and even the thought that you would tell a parent that their kid isn't good enough is the kind of thing that someone whose never had it said to them would say. And you're using the wrong word to describe the people, because a friend would want their friend's daughter to experience success, not be sacrificed for a 80 cent trophy.

softball is a game of individual successes and failures, and if a kid is getting scouted for her partial scholarship at a D1 (because we really do have to keep in mind the stakes, that parent spends 5K a year for six years in order to potentially save 2500 a year in tuition), those coaches will see her skill and give no craps about whether the team won or not. A girl going 4-4 will stand out to them in a 17-4 loss much more than a girl going 1-4 in a 17-4 win. If parents are paying thousands a year to watch their kids‘ teams win, I’d suggest perhaps their priorities are askew.

Your coach who played the "substandard" players and tried to develop them was a a good thing. Great coaches try to build up their players, make them into better people and let the game follow. Good coaches help them develop the game and hope the character follows. Bad coaches stress winning, period.

If your organization shares your philosophy, I hope they makes it perfectly clear to every parent before they take their money. A big painted sign that says "WE ONLY CARE ABOUT WINNING. WE WILL GLADLY SACRIFICE YOUR DAUGHTER'S SELF-IMAGE AND SELF ESTEEM IF OUR "EXPERT" COACHES THINK IT MIGHT HELP US GET A TROPHY." At least they'd know what they were getting into.
 
Last edited:
Jun 16, 2010
259
28
Winning is important ... well, never in softball. Never. It's fun. Never important.

Softball is a game played by a bunch of kids. it helps them develop mental stamina and athletic prowess and hopefully character they can take to the rest of their real life. But winning a game? Aside from the momentary joy it brings, it means absolutely, positively nothing. You know what a 14-year-old girl gets from throwing a perfect game? In 10 or 20 years she can chuckle and say, "yeah, I threw a perfect game once" as she's talking to her friends. Nothing more substantial than that. It is insane that an adult, who presumably has at least two decades of life experience on the kids playing, would see softball as anything more than a diversion that provides exercise and occasionally some charachter development.

You really used the word "substandard" to describe a high school kid? And then, in a team game, you attributed multiple losses to her, and her alone? She's the only player who didn't get on base every at bat? She both pitched, caught and fielded every play? That's some strange definition, and a very strange interpretation of youth sports. Let me provide you a d different one: They don't matter. The point is fun, competition and community/friendships, and even the thought that you would tell a parent that their kid isn't good enough is the kind of thing that someone whose never had it said to them would say. And you're using the wrong word to describe the people, because a friend would want their friend's daughter to experience success, not be sacrificed for a 80 cent trophy.

softball is a game of individual successes and failures, and if a kid is getting scouted for her partial scholarship at a D1 (because we really do have to keep in mind the stakes, that parent spends 5K a year for six years in order to potentially save 2500 a year in tuition), those coaches will see her skill and give no craps about whether the team won or not. A girl going 4-4 will stand out to them in a 17-4 loss much more than a girl going 1-4 in a 17-4 win. If parents are paying thousands a year to watch their kids‘ teams win, I’d suggest perhaps their priorities are askew.

Your coach who played the "substandard" players and tried to develop them was a a good thing. Great coaches try to build up their players, make them into better people and let the game follow. Good coaches help them develop the game and hope the character follows. Bad coaches stress winning, period.

If your organization shares your philosophy, I hope they makes it perfectly clear to every parent before they take their money. A big painted sign that says "WE ONLY CARE ABOUT WINNING. WE WILL GLADLY SACRIFICE YOUR DAUGHTER'S SELF-IMAGE AND SELF ESTEEM IF OUR "EXPERT" COACHES THINK IT MIGHT HELP US GET A TROPHY." At least they'd know what they were getting into.

Sorry yóu disagree
You went a little wild making crap up up there.
Winning....gets girls in front of coaches
Winning teams....have reputations for producing elite players.
Winning teams coaches..... Are on speed dial from college coaches
Winning keeps you playing till Sunday night in tournaments..... Instead of Saturday morning.
Winning gets you to play other best teams from all over the country.

no winning isn't everything, but it's the reason that your out there on the field .......every time.




when your goal is to compete at the highest level it is about winning. To be the best player you can be you have to compete with the best. You don't get there except by winning. In fact the lower level of competition you play the worse you're going to be.

We never needed trophies. our organization had more trophies than you could count.... Hundreds from 40 years of playing.. filled a room wall to wall. 300 + girls played college ball. Finally lost count of how many. Had our own ball park with field for each age group too. Girls learn to take care of the field themselves from 10 years old.....cuz that's what they're going to be doing when they get to college. they didn't mow or drag it but they did everything else

And it was always done by taking who showed up. They didn't go out and recruit girls.... And try to put together a ringer team..... They worked with what showed up at tryouts and taught them the fundamentals.... Over and over and over and over and over. Turn them into ball players. Reputation would draw girls from up to two and a half hour radius......

World's best coaches too... teaching for free..... 40 + years because they love girls and they love the game.

If you don't want to win, stay in rec ball at the YMCA.

Substandard girls.......nothing you can do with someone that lacks physical attributes. Hand-eye coordination or strength. Do you really think a player accepted conditionally for extra practice and maybe a little game time if ahead.... Only because the assistant coach is her high School coach.... ever feels like a real contributing part of team? No, they dont. Nobody likes feeling unneeded. But sometimes that's the truth. The girls treated her fine.......but she and her parents knew they were different.
 
Last edited:
Feb 20, 2020
377
63
Glad to see Gordon Gecko can still be channeled 35 years later.

If that’s the way you see it, that’s the way you see it. I hope you let parents know from 10 years old you see their daughters as replaceable and feeders of the organizational ego, and no matter what effort and dedication they show, they’re on the bench (or out the door) as soon as a shinier player shows up.

Winning should be important to the girls, because they are out there playing, and a win is a reward for their efforts. I misspoke there. It shouldn’t matter to the organization at all, and shouldn’t matter to the coaches much. If they are as good as you say, they should already have college coaches attention.

that said, as long as you’re upfront about it and tell everyone before they commit and become attached — before they join a TEAM — that your organization will dump them as soon as a better option that helps the organization be known as “winners” comes along, I guess it’s fine. Some parents will sign up to live vicariously, and maybe you’ll even help some top flight players along the way. And if you happen to damage some self esteem, or make a young girl feel less about herself not because she failed, but because a coach decided the liked someone else better, what the hell? Like you said, just part of growing up.
 
Last edited:

Forum statistics

Threads
42,830
Messages
679,477
Members
21,445
Latest member
Bmac81802
Top