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fanboi22

on the journey
Nov 9, 2015
1,138
83
SE Wisconsin
Personally I'd be concerned if the hitter focusing too much on hands to create/force this barrel path... this is why the pros say what they say, demo what they demo and practice "down/direct to".
I really like that video to show what the barrel does when just pulled. Direct to. However, i do feel (at least with my DD) that she does need to do more than just 'pull' that barrel into the path of the ball. Unless you can 'catch' the ball out front perfectly timed, i think that the 'manipulation' of the barrel with the hands is needed to create more time, to be able to swing later and get the barrel around quicker. 'Pulling', IMO, only gets you part the way there. Just using generic terms as i didn't want to use confrontational terms. Now put that thought demonstration in 3 dimensions, not just 2, and now you have the different starting points to think about as well. So get on plane before launch and you should only have to worry about the 2D. Starting in 3D you have to make sure the hands hold tight from more than one point.
 
May 12, 2016
4,338
113
I really like that video to show what the barrel does when just pulled. Direct to. However, i do feel (at least with my DD) that she does need to do more than just 'pull' that barrel into the path of the ball. Unless you can 'catch' the ball out front perfectly timed, i think that the 'manipulation' of the barrel with the hands is needed to create more time, to be able to swing later and get the barrel around quicker. 'Pulling', IMO, only gets you part the way there. Just using generic terms as i didn't want to use confrontational terms. Now put that thought demonstration in 3 dimensions, not just 2, and now you have the different starting points to think about as well. So get on plane before launch and you should only have to worry about the 2D. Starting in 3D you have to make sure the hands hold tight from more than one point.
Gotta do what’s right for your DD …but you can get on plane without TTB, get the body in position to support the hands, instead of relying on the hands to plane early. Again FB, I am completely in support of doing whatever works for your DD, all the best
 

fanboi22

on the journey
Nov 9, 2015
1,138
83
SE Wisconsin
Gotta do what’s right for your DD …but you can get on plane without TTB, get the body in position to support the hands, instead of relying on the hands to plane early. Again FB, I am completely in support of doing whatever works for your DD, all the best
Not sure we are talking about the same thing with 'planing'. TTB to me is an action at launch. Planing to me is the action before launch. It was the action during the move out to get the front elbow and barrel on plane with pitch before launch. No matter where the body is. Maybe i am just fully misunderstanding.
 
Jan 6, 2009
6,587
113
Chehalis, Wa
This video should make it crystal clear for everyone.



Yes it’s crystal clear. The quickest swing is down and up, ( a curvature path between two points) In the balls flight, when the bat is at its lowest point the barrel is below the balls path. It then raises up to the point of contact.

The math problem explains clearly that all pro’s videos of them taking the most direct
route of the hands/barrel it is slower.

When you create the Nike swoosh like Trout showed earlier, the quickest path happens. The pic with a powder path.

It’s why being late can result in a foul straight back. It’s also why when a hitter is looking for different pitch or location, they might be late and swing under the ball. Their under the ball because of timing, the bat always takes that path but the timing is wrong (doesn’t get back up in time).

Case closed. Math, geometrics has solved the problem.
 
Jan 6, 2009
6,587
113
Chehalis, Wa
I’m going to remake this



However if you create a straight line from the barrels first position to contact, And you create I swing from the barrel and hands straight down along that straight line. How the Brachistochrone works creates the quickest path. Quickest swing.

Manny is down and back. Creating the quickest path.
 

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Nov 16, 2017
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I’m going to remake this



However if you create a straight line from the barrels first position to contact, And you create I swing from the barrel and hands straight down along that straight line. How the Brachistochrone works creates the quickest path. Quickest swing.

Manny is down and back. Creating the quickest path.

We may be getting somewhere; what creates the curved line for a swing referencing the brachistochrone? Lets refer to it as a loop vs a straight line. Are the hands manipulating this path?, or is it the result the turn of the body.

Imagine now that the cycloid is the turn of the body, the radius of the cycloid is indeed a straight line otherwise known as the path the hands must take. Which of course is what we have been saying all along. Keep the hands in a straight path add the proper rotation of the body and you will create the desired path.

Swing down and turn.
 
May 12, 2016
4,338
113
Not sure we are talking about the same thing with 'planing'. TTB to me is an action at launch. Planing to me is the action before launch. It was the action during the move out to get the front elbow and barrel on plane with pitch before launch. No matter where the body is. Maybe i am just fully misunderstanding.
Gotcha, I understand what you are saying. Some people refer to plaining, un tipping etc as TTB and that’s where I was mistaken. If your DD started with the bat on her shoulder, what would she do to get to a low inside pitch? If you DD started with the bat in a vertical position, she would probably plane to get to a pitch high in the strike zone. IMO, how much a hitter tips or un tips is the result of where the bat starts during the forward move… it’s nothing more than style.

Again, this is just my opinion, I wish your DD success
 
May 12, 2016
4,338
113
Yes it’s crystal clear. The quickest swing is down and up, ( a curvature path between two points) In the balls flight, when the bat is at its lowest point the barrel is below the balls path. It then raises up to the point of contact.

The math problem explains clearly that all pro’s videos of them taking the most direct
route of the hands/barrel it is slower.

When you create the Nike swoosh like Trout showed earlier, the quickest path happens. The pic with a powder path.

It’s why being late can result in a foul straight back. It’s also why when a hitter is looking for different pitch or location, they might be late and swing under the ball. Their under the ball because of timing, the bat always takes that path but the timing is wrong (doesn’t get back up in time).

Case closed. Math, geometrics has solved the problem.
This is where people are being mislead.... the barrel dissects the ball. The barrel is not just a point(end of bat), it's a series of points that can intersect the ball. So when you show a video or gif and plot the path in 2D, yes the end of the barrel shows below the ball. But if you think about it in 3D, and draw a line from the hands to the end of the bat.. any point on the that line can intersect the ball, the entire line is on plane. Hitters are not trying to drop the barrel below the ball and then up through. They are trying to stay through the ball as long as possible. Because the swing is an arc, ideally the barrel will go down to the plane of the pitch... but at some point it as will arc back up again. Teaching kids that the barrel is below the ball at it's lowest point is a big mistake and will lead to major issues as pitching gets better. JMHO
 

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