Swing Critique? 10u

[Borrowingminds]

the Upside down shoulders is intent based imo with this young hitter. And the big leg kick. Her father put up a fence and gave her a new goal of HRs. So now she is swinging for HRs. You can see the differences before and after.

I always thought hitting line drives was the most skilled outcome. As well as an unselfish team approach. So thats what should be preached. Hit it through the fence. Not over it.

The HR fence was for fun, and to have an attainable goal that required effort. I do regret using a tee with it...I still believe upside down is fear based and not allowing herself to get vulnerable. We always have had a goal of hitting through the second baseman. I'm no expert though, that's why I'm here.

Each week the fear eases a bit, and she has doubled two weeks in a row now, with some solid barrels. Last evening (video attached) she actually made contact "out front" though she still stalled on her "move out." Started to though! Then cocked her rear knee towards the catcher instead of letting it ride forward.

Then, as the norm, she opened and slotted early, but did so with somewhat active hands so her hands didn't fall behind.

Either way, she feels she set a new bar. She was excited.

 

[clemenslee1]

The HR fence was for fun, and to have an attainable goal that required effort. I do regret using a tee with it...I still believe upside down is fear based and not allowing herself to get vulnerable. We always have had a goal of hitting through the second baseman. I'm no expert though, that's why I'm here.

Each week the fear eases a bit, and she has doubled two weeks in a row now, with some solid barrels. Last evening (video attached) she actually made contact "out front" though she still stalled on her "move out." Started to though! Then cocked her rear knee towards the catcher instead of letting it ride forward.

Then, as the norm, she opened and slotted early, but did so with somewhat active hands so her forearm maintained somewhat horizontal and her hands didn't fall behind...it seems to me that makes a difference?

Either way, she feels she set a new bar. She was excited.

Thats great! Progress in one area or another is all one could hope for!

 

[Work=wins]

The HR fence was for fun, and to have an attainable goal that required effort. I do regret using a tee with it...I still believe upside down is fear based and not allowing herself to get vulnerable. We always have had a goal of hitting through the second baseman. I'm no expert though, that's why I'm here.

Each week the fear eases a bit, and she has doubled two weeks in a row now, with some solid barrels. Last evening (video attached) she actually made contact "out front" though she still stalled on her "move out." Started to though! Then cocked her rear knee towards the catcher instead of letting it ride forward.

Then, as the norm, she opened and slotted early, but did so with somewhat active hands so her hands didn't fall behind.

Either way, she feels she set a new bar. She was excited.

congrats! The intent is different here. No big leg kick. Trying to time the pitch. I don’t see fear. I see trying to figure it out. It’s a good swing. I don’t see anything you said you saw. Could it be a tad more aggressive? sure. Give it a week or a month.

see the back knee get tight? she doesn’t slot before then. she pulled the slack out first. Front shoulder stays in for a long time. Front knee hardly rotates. feet are in the ground. its pretty good imo.

whatever you changed.. keep it up. Ask the forum if you get stuck. Good job!

ps. Love the Arod, Miggy follow through. She’s got style!

 

[Borrowingminds]

congrats! The intent is different here. No big leg kick. Trying to time the pitch. I don’t see fear. I see trying to figure it out. It’s a good swing. I don’t see anything you said you saw. Could it be a tad more aggressive? sure. Give it a week or a month.

see the back knee get tight? she doesn’t slot before then. she pulled the slack out first. Front shoulder stays in for a long time. Front knee hardly rotates. feet are in the ground. its pretty good imo.

whatever you changed.. keep it up. Ask the forum if you get stuck. Good job!

ps. Love the Arod, Miggy follow through. She’s got style!

I only asked her to allow herself to get out from over her back foot, I think most of any improvement is getting more and more comfortable with live pitching. Giving it time is prob the best advice.

You mentioned she pulled the slack out...you don't think she should have her hands back (such as where they are when she starts her stance) at the point her toe touches, or at heel plant? Like the visual I see floating around here? I feel like I see it slotting, and her arms get disconnected and her turn isn't a tight or strong as it could be. I don't want to overcoach, and right now we're kind of in a see the ball hit the ball period, but I'd like to keep some type of focus on pattern between games.

I guess what I'm asking is should the elbow slot, hands turn the barrel/knob, and torso rotate all simultaneously?

Appreciate the input, and yes now that you mention it I do see some Miggy in the follow through!

 

[fanboi22]

I only asked her to allow herself to get out from over her back foot, I think most of any improvement is getting more and more comfortable with live pitching. Giving it time is prob the best advice.

You mentioned she pulled the slack out...you don't think she should have her hands back (such as where they are when she starts her stance) at the point her toe touches, or at heel plant? Like the visual I see floating around here? I feel like I see it slotting, and her arms get disconnected and her turn isn't a tight or strong as it could be. I don't want to overcoach, and right now we're kind of in a see the ball hit the ball period, but I'd like to keep some type of focus on pattern between games.

I guess what I'm asking is should the elbow slot, hands turn the barrel/knob, and torso rotate all simultaneously?

Appreciate the input, and yes now that you mention it I do see some Miggy in the follow through!

IMO, the answer to your bolded above is , yes. My opinion on elbow slot is evolving however. I feel that the proper posture combined with torso turn with hands maintaining a constant distance to rear shoulder during initial rotation, CREATES an elbow slot and that elbow slot itself is a non-teach. What is difficult for my DD, is what the hands have to be doing and when during this initial phase or 'launch' of the swing.

I think there have been many posts with pvc and other implements that show trying to keep the shoulders in line with the incoming ball, and this combined with the hands 'turning the barrel' into that same incoming ball bath, creates the elbow slot. My interpretation of what @Work=wins means by creating space for the arms is this posture that is needed to get the shoulders on path which allows the hands to do their thing while maintaining the distance between side of body and elbow.

Try this, take a bat and pretend that you have incoming pitches at different levels. Dont worry about inside outside or the lower half. Just pretend there is a high heater, then a low ball at the shins. For each location keep the hands orientated at whatever starting position you want, twist your torso into the incoming invisible pitch without moving your hands, make sure to get your torso in the correct posture to keep the shoulders in line (where the pvc pipe extends to meet the ball). The barrel will stay high and out of the path and doesn't make any sense without trying to get the barrel into that balls path. But your hands should still stay aligned with the shoulders.

Now, do the same thing but feel the hands working, like the top hand is turning/twisting/supinating, and the bottom hand leveling with the elbow getting inline with the pitch path - All while keeping the hands in the same relative location to the shoulder. This movement/feel is what other are calling TTB (turn the barrel). The hands stay tight to the shoulder, but rotate the handle to get the barrel into the path of the pitch, all while maintaining the posture AND rotating the torso into the pitch. And when you have turned the torso enough, you release the hands and punch into the incoming pitch. (This is where the 'knob' to ball comes into play, as you can try to keep the acute angle of the wrists hinge longer to create the late 'whip' with more extension, or you can try to keep a constant wrist hinge and use the initial TTB as the swing - this second one is where alot of arguments start IMO a concept of immediate bat speed which i think is not correct based on a small data sample)

In any case, with the correct posture and head a bit farther over backside, this total movement creates the 'look' of the 'deep' barrel path and TTB. As you are using the hands with a strong grip to 'twist' the handle to get the barrel into the path. IMO, the amount of rotation of the hips and torso are dictated by the inside / outside nature of the pitch. if outside rotation stops sooner to 'release' the hands from the shoulders to the ball and allow it to 'whip' into the ball. Or inside, where the rotation is longer with a later 'release' of the hands from the shoulders.

I think the concept of TTB has been overbaked as an independent concept, and is really the result of what i have described above. And as long as the hitter is getting to the 'position of truth' (or RVP? if i am using that term correctly) it wont matter the style of tip and rip or neck slot.

Again, all my opinion, and what i am feeling when working with my DD. We are continuing to work on keeping that rear elbow steady until launch. And from there, the connection that we are trying to keep is to not let the hands lag as the upper body 'fires' or launches as well as the firm grip and the thought of getting that top hand to palm up asap while locked to the shoulder. As you mention your DD's hands are dropping with the early 'slot' well before toe touch or the torso or hips start driving.

i should go back to work now...........

 

[Work=wins]

You mentioned she pulled the slack out...you don't think she should have her hands back (such as where they are when she starts her stance) at the point her toe touches, or at heel plant? Like the visual I see floating around here? I feel like I see it slotting, and her arms get disconnected and her turn isn't a tight or strong as it could be. I don't want to overcoach, and right now we're kind of in a see the ball hit the ball period, but I'd like to keep some type of focus on pattern between games.

I guess what I'm asking is should the elbow slot, hands turn the barrel/knob, and torso rotate all simultaneously?

Appreciate the input, and yes now that you mention it I do see some Miggy in the follow through!
[/QUOTE]

i don’t know why I forgot to reply. Apologies. Her swing in the vid looks like she has got good torso arm/hand synchronization.

the load stride should happen, the shoulders engage the torso, then the arms engage. the hands are last. Some kids need to learn a proper lead arm. Mostly bc it’s not their dominant arm/hand.

lead arms off a high tee can train lead arm usage. I suggest using a load stride so they can feel the sync to the torso. Same can be said for the back arm slotting.

after a good feel is trained move the tee around. Always Try to hit line drives. progress to both arms.


edit: the hands shouldn’t move forward while clearing space. they come forward when launching.

 

[efastball]

Would you like to fix this swing in a couple of days?? It's been 18 months since you first posted.

Here she is during the stride. Notice, instead of going forward (good), she goes back and her head is over her back foot (bad)


The she makes things worse, by striding/reaching with the front leg (bad), not the back leg (good). Notice her head is barely past the back heel (green), and it should be 2-4 inches further (yellow>


Do dry stride drills (no ball/tee), and work on picking up the front knee and falling onto a very bent front leg. Do not reach with the front leg. Do not let the front knee roll over. Mark the ground with tape for correct head placement, and have her look down after each stride.

Do this for a few days, and problem solved.

 

[Work=wins]

 

[Work=wins]

Would you like to fix this swing in a couple of days?? It's been 18 months since you first posted.

Here she is during the stride. Notice, instead of going forward (good), she goes back and her head is over her back foot (bad)
View attachment 22065

The she makes things worse, by striding/reaching with the front leg (bad), not the back leg (good). Notice her head is barely past the back heel (green), and it should be 2-4 inches further (yellow>
View attachment 22066

Do dry stride drills (no ball/tee), and work on picking up the front knee and falling onto a very bent front leg. Do not reach with the front leg. Do not let the front knee roll over. Mark the ground with tape for correct head placement, and have her look down after each stride.

Do this for a few days, and problem solved.

I see what you’re saying. But before the stride leg ‘reaches’ her pelvis has advanced. I don’t think it’s a reach. Could it be better? Sure. It it’s pretty good for her age and for just learning as well.

 

[Borrowingminds]

IMO, the answer to your bolded above is , yes. My opinion on elbow slot is evolving however. I feel that the proper posture combined with torso turn with hands maintaining a constant distance to rear shoulder during initial rotation, CREATES an elbow slot and that elbow slot itself is a non-teach. What is difficult for my DD, is what the hands have to be doing and when during this initial phase or 'launch' of the swing.

I think there have been many posts with pvc and other implements that show trying to keep the shoulders in line with the incoming ball, and this combined with the hands 'turning the barrel' into that same incoming ball bath, creates the elbow slot. My interpretation of what @Work=wins means by creating space for the arms is this posture that is needed to get the shoulders on path which allows the hands to do their thing while maintaining the distance between side of body and elbow.

Try this, take a bat and pretend that you have incoming pitches at different levels. Dont worry about inside outside or the lower half. Just pretend there is a high heater, then a low ball at the shins. For each location keep the hands orientated at whatever starting position you want, twist your torso into the incoming invisible pitch without moving your hands, make sure to get your torso in the correct posture to keep the shoulders in line (where the pvc pipe extends to meet the ball). The barrel will stay high and out of the path and doesn't make any sense without trying to get the barrel into that balls path. But your hands should still stay aligned with the shoulders.

Now, do the same thing but feel the hands working, like the top hand is turning/twisting/supinating, and the bottom hand leveling with the elbow getting inline with the pitch path - All while keeping the hands in the same relative location to the shoulder. This movement/feel is what other are calling TTB (turn the barrel). The hands stay tight to the shoulder, but rotate the handle to get the barrel into the path of the pitch, all while maintaining the posture AND rotating the torso into the pitch. And when you have turned the torso enough, you release the hands and punch into the incoming pitch. (This is where the 'knob' to ball comes into play, as you can try to keep the acute angle of the wrists hinge longer to create the late 'whip' with more extension, or you can try to keep a constant wrist hinge and use the initial TTB as the swing - this second one is where alot of arguments start IMO a concept of immediate bat speed which i think is not correct based on a small data sample)

In any case, with the correct posture and head a bit farther over backside, this total movement creates the 'look' of the 'deep' barrel path and TTB. As you are using the hands with a strong grip to 'twist' the handle to get the barrel into the path. IMO, the amount of rotation of the hips and torso are dictated by the inside / outside nature of the pitch. if outside rotation stops sooner to 'release' the hands from the shoulders to the ball and allow it to 'whip' into the ball. Or inside, where the rotation is longer with a later 'release' of the hands from the shoulders.

I think the concept of TTB has been overbaked as an independent concept, and is really the result of what i have described above. And as long as the hitter is getting to the 'position of truth' (or RVP? if i am using that term correctly) it wont matter the style of tip and rip or neck slot.

Again, all my opinion, and what i am feeling when working with my DD. We are continuing to work on keeping that rear elbow steady until launch. And from there, the connection that we are trying to keep is to not let the hands lag as the upper body 'fires' or launches as well as the firm grip and the thought of getting that top hand to palm up asap while locked to the shoulder. As you mention your DD's hands are dropping with the early 'slot' well before toe touch or the torso or hips start driving.

i should go back to work now...........

Thanks a ton for the thoughtful reply. I totally agree, now that you mention it, the elbow slot is a non teach. It seems one of the biggest challenges is recognizing what are "non-teaches," to simplify the process as much as possible, particularly at this age.

Somewhere here I ran across the concept of the "hands" including the hands/wrists/forearms. If we can get to a strong launch position while the hands maintain position somewhere above the rear foot, they(hands through forearms) can then turn in unison (or just after, or they trigger?)with the shoulders to get behind the ball quickly in a fortified position.