Some timing things Lizzy is working on

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Jun 18, 2012
3,183
48
Utah
Might be off on another tangent, but I believe her landing kills some of the intended energy transfer that a landing from a leg-drive should. I see her landing as overly dampening.

 
Jun 18, 2012
3,183
48
Utah
Doug, I’m not sure I follow. Are you meaning she’s not getting an explosive leg drive?

Explosive leg-drive is one thing (I see her as having a great thrust action in her right leg). An overly soft, possibly prolonged, landing with the foot is something different. I believe her tip-toeing down to landing somewhat compromizes/dampens the purpose of her explosive leg-drive. Java has, in the past, discussed the "mid-foot" strike at landing as being optimal. It's been a pet-peeve of mine ever since. The mid-foot strike would do away with most, if not all, of the dampenind effect I see in her current toe-first landing.

A mid-foot strike later than her tip-toe landing would be more abrupt, thus would transfer more of the ground-force energy that's there for the taking as a result of her explosive leg-drive.
 
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Oct 1, 2014
2,219
113
USA
The other thing Liz is working on is keeping the front foot lower to the ground by not "reaching" out with her toes (not sure if that makes sense).

I understand the "not reaching out with her toes" part but I'm wondering if she shouldn't still be driving her knee forward a bit harder (up and out, more parallel to the ground). Again not to be confused with kicking the foot or reaching out with the toes. I've been told it's hard to do when you are about to fall on your face. ;-)
 
Oct 10, 2012
502
16
Oklahoma
Explosive leg-drive is one thing (I see her as having a great thrust action in her right leg). An overly soft, possibly prolonged, landing with the foot is something different. I believe her tip-toeing down to landing somewhat compromizes/dampens the purpose of her explosive leg-drive. Java has, in the past, discussed the "mid-foot" strike at landing as being optimal. It's been a pet-peeve of mine ever since. The mid-foot strike would do away with most, if not all, of the dampenind effect I see in her current toe-first landing.

A mid-foot strike later than her tip-toe landing would be more abrupt, thus would transfer more of the ground-force energy that's there for the taking as a result of her explosive leg-drive.

Ah I see. Yes, but at present we are trying to achieve good front side timing. If I start talking about which portion of the foot DD should be landing on, it will muddy the waters a bit I’m sure. Appreciate the insight though.
 
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Jun 18, 2012
3,183
48
Utah
Lizzy has always struggled with timing. Mainly front side timing. Meaning, where the landing foot is in relationship to the ball arm.

Go upstream from this tip-toe landing I mentioned and you'll see this. Look closely at her stride foot from the time it passes the stride knee to the time that stride-foot toe lands.

 
Jun 18, 2012
3,183
48
Utah
Now observe the orientation of Abbott's, Ueno's, and Osterman's stride foot.

Screenshot (495).jpg

Notice a difference? Lizzy has the tendency to have her stride foot pointing down throughout her stride, leading to her stride foot big toe landing while the ball is directly over her forehead. She needs to get that stride foot pointed up a little right as and a tad after her stride foot passes here stride knee.

I believe my point to Lizzy's tip-toe landing is a result of something that is rather significant with regards to "Mainly front side timing. Meaning, where the landing foot is in relationship to the ball arm."
 
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Oct 10, 2012
502
16
Oklahoma
Doug I totally see what you are talking about. That is something on our list to work on. But, it has been my experience with my DD that if we start focusing on too many things at once we get mediocre results. We have a "tackle one thing at a time" type mentality. Getting good overlap is Lizzy's number one goal right now. Once she gets comfortable with that, we'll move to the next thing on the list. She is also working on a couple of new spin concepts that take up quiet a bit of time. We know the foot flexion is definitely something that needs to be worked on (and will be) but at the moment we feel getting comfortable with what is she is doing is first priority. Like I said, thanks for the input. Much appreciated.
 
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Oct 1, 2014
2,219
113
USA
Leg/circle timing can be boiled down to enhancing front side resistance. IOW, the rate at which one can change direction. For this reason, there is no magic time (despite Ken's obsession with 10:55 pst ).

If we want to increase our speed, we need a way to accelerate the ball forward. FSR accomplishes this WITHOUT the need of trying to juice the ball with our arm, or with unnecessary/misdirected tension in the body. We need one moment where we allow for TRANSFER of energy... and 99.9% of young athletes are instead using release as an opportunity to CREATE.

To transfer EFFICIENTLY... our joints (stride ankle, stride knee, stride hip, spine crossover, throwing shoulder) need to be stacked against the force into the ground. In addition, the ball needs to be slightly beyond this diagonal line of stacked joints.

From there... we need to then have the ability to stabilize and resist. If the posture is good, the alignment of the joints do the Lion's share of the work (compressive) in stability... meaning that we are less likely to activate muscles (create energy) at a time of transfer.

Stability occurs from the ground up... ankle, knee, hip, spine, shoulder)... and as each area stabilizes, it comes to an inactive appearance... as the energy is sucked out of the preceding joint and passed into the next.

Total body stability is most efficient when it occurs JUST before brush contact. If this is the case, the stability allows for well-timed internal rotation... or the series of tightening rotations that occurs when we release the ball efficiently. Without stability, the angular corner that I/R creates is loosened... and less efficient.

So... as Ben suggests, it's been observed that if the athletes stride foot starts to descend back towards the ground (it first goes up and outward) no later than when the athlete reaches 3:00... this checkpoint allows the athlete plenty of time to make all of the above to happen. Otherwise, they run out of time, and lose energy transfer (speed) into the ball.

I added all these points because I know plenty of young ladies with decent frontside timing, but poor FSR. It's a chain of sequences... not just one. And Lizzy could have better FSR, too

Lastly, the Rate of Force Development when pushing from the rubber is a giant failure in young athletes these days. As noted in the DM thread, the rate at which the drive knee extends is most often MUCH SLOWER than the rate at which the stride leg comes out... making for very INEFFICIENT use of the lower half. Watch a single-leg bound... and note that the pushing knee straightens AS the striding knee flexes. This is Efficient... and what allows for one to disconnect from the rubber at 3, too. Angela Tinscher was one of the best I've watched with lower body organization, firing rate, and rate of FSR. Lizzy has improved here the most, Ben.

On the road right now, I'll toss some gifs up when I get home.

Bumping this for current reference....
 

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