Softball Scoring Question?

[_MIA_]

Was the 3B one assist shy of a triple double and is her name Russell ?

 

[grmerrill]

A ground ball misplayed by F5, but recovered by F6, and the play made to get the out, you would score as G5-6-3. Intentionally an assist or not, they still had a hand in the play.

Definitely not an error.

I lean toward giving an assist to the person who deflects the ball in this situation, too. There is a note in the scoring rules about how you don't award an assist if the contact is "ineffective" (I think that's the wording), but there are no case plays and I have no idea what they really mean by that.

Oh, and for those who don't know: Any runners tagging can leave as soon as the ball touches the third baseman's glove.

Thats not the situation they gave. They said a pop up that came out of the third basemans glove, not a deflected grounder. The pitcher doesn't catch it, it's an error.

 

[Yanko70]

Here's the assist wording from MLB, I would assume that's pretty much the Bible when it comes to scoring.

10.10 ASSISTS
An assist is a statistic credited to a fielder whose action contributes to a batter-
runner or runner being put out, as set forth in this Rule 10.10.
(a) The official scorer shall credit an assist to each fielder who

(1) throws or deflects a batted or thrown ball in such a way that a putout results, or
would have resulted except for a subsequent error by any fielder. Only one
assist and no more shall be credited to each fielder who throws or deflects the
ball in a run-down play that results in a putout, or would have resulted in a
putout, except for a subsequent error; or

Rule 10.10(a)(1) Comment: Mere ineffective contact with the ball shall not be considered an
assist. “Deflect” shall mean to slow down or change the direction of the ball and thereby effectively
assist in putting out a batter or runner. If a putout results from an appeal play within the natural course
of play, the official scorer shall give assists to each fielder, except the fielder making the putout, whose
action led to the putout. If a putout results from an appeal play initiated by the pitcher throwing to a
fielder after the previous play has ended, the official scorer shall credit the pitcher, and only the pitche

And Error is defined as:

(a) The official scorer shall charge an error against any fielder:
(1) whose misplay (fumble, muff or wild throw) prolongs the time at bat of a
batter, prolongs the presence on the bases of a runner or permits a runner to
advance one or more bases, unless, in the judgment of the official scorer, such
fielder deliberately permits a foul fly to fall safe with a runner on third base
before two are out in order that the runner on third shall not score after the
catch;

So you can not have an error charged on a play where a Batter Runner doesn't reach base or a Base Runner advances to a base they shouldn't have. Even if you dropped a pop up but still were able to throw out the runner it's not an error.

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[Eric F]

Thats not the situation they gave. They said a pop up that came out of the third basemans glove, not a deflected grounder. The pitcher doesn't catch it, it's an error.

If F1 didn't catch it after being bobbled by F5, and the runner got on base because of it, it would be an error. On the pop-up play described by the OP, the ball was still caught, just not by the first person who touched it. If a fly ball is dropped, picked up, and thrown to 1B to get the runner out, it's not scored as an error because no runners advanced. Likewise with a pitch missed by the catcher. It's only scored a WP or PB if runners advance.

The original question was about whether to include F5 on the play when recording it in the scorebook.

 

[Northball]

And Error is defined as:

...whose misplay (fumble, muff or wild throw) prolongs the time at bat...

So you can not have an error charged on a play where a Batter Runner doesn't reach base or a Base Runner advances to a base they shouldn't have. Even if you dropped a pop up but still were able to throw out the runner it's not an error.

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Would a dropped pop-up in foul territory would be counted as an error because the misplay prolonged the time at bat? Or is it just a foul ball because the batter didn't reach base?

 

[Yanko70]

Would a dropped pop-up in foul territory would be counted as an error because the misplay prolonged the time at bat? Or is it just a foul ball because the batter didn't reach base?

I would score it an error due to the prolonged time at bat, unless there is a runner on third with less than 2 outs and the fielder intentionally let the ball drop.

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[Gags]

Thanks for the clarification - I hadn't considered a dropped foul ball - I'll have to check to see if GameChanger allows you charge an error on that type of play but continue the current AB. BTW - NFHS & NCAA also has the "prolongs the time at bat" clause.

Northball - I would say a dropped pop-up in foul territory WOULD be counted as an error, b/c of the specific exception in the rules - if an INTENTIONALLY dropped foul ball IS NOT an error, to me this strongly implies that an UNINTENTIONALLY dropped foul ball IS an error.

Given that this could theoretically allow a fielder to be charged an error on a dropped foul, but the AB still ending with an out on the later pitches, perhaps the rarest feat in baseball/softball would be a perfect game with an error still showing in the boxscore of the winning team?

 

[CoachJD]

Thats not the situation they gave. They said a pop up that came out of the third basemans glove, not a deflected grounder. The pitcher doesn't catch it, it's an error.

I'm not exactly sure which part of my comment you're responding to because, quite frankly, it appears to not really refer to anything specific I said. Did you mean to quote someone else?

The situation given had the ball popping out of one fielder's glove and the other catching it in the air. That's what I and everybody else here is talking about. Your first comment said that should be an error. It's not an error because the ball was caught in the air.

The deflected ball language in the official scoring rules says literally nothing about it being a ground ball.

 

[CoachJD]

Would a dropped pop-up in foul territory would be counted as an error because the misplay prolonged the time at bat? Or is it just a foul ball because the batter didn't reach base?

Yes. And this is scored an error all the time.

The one caveat is that foul pop ups are often not plays that require ordinary effort to complete, so that's probably something that should be taken into account when making the decision.

 

[grmerrill]

I'm not exactly sure which part of my comment you're responding to because, quite frankly, it appears to not really refer to anything specific I said. Did you mean to quote someone else?

The situation given had the ball popping out of one fielder's glove and the other catching it in the air. That's what I and everybody else here is talking about. Your first comment said that should be an error. It's not an error because the ball was caught in the air.

The deflected ball language in the official scoring rules says literally nothing about it being a ground ball.

Someone else used a deflected grounder as justification that it is an assist. My contention is that a popup that bounces out of the mitt is an error. The fact that someone else catches it would not make it an assist. Rather or not the play results in an out at first may effect how it is booked, but it does not change that it should have been caught regardless of what happened with the runner.