So.....Peel or Roll-over....why is one better then the other?

[sluggers]

Another example of a pitcher saying one thing and doing another:

[video=youtube_share;LIVYiPfKjKU]http://youtu.be/LIVYiPfKjKU[/video]

At 00:47, she is clearly throwing a drop with rollover technique.

She then discusses how to throw a peel drop. At 1:16, she goes so far as to show the "hello elbow" for a peel.

And, then she throws one, and ***SURPRISE*** there is the IR.

It isn't any surprise that people get confused when talking about the drop...

The point of all of this:

If your DD wants to throw an effective drop, she has to use IR to spin the ball or the ball isn't going to move.

 

[CoachFP]

That is correct ... a large percentage of mishit balls will be blow the center of the ball.

Also consider that a pitch low in the zone will have a 'good' hitter using more of a diagonal barrel path ... and that can lead to balls pitched low in the zone being lifted.

This thread is getting out of hand. The "Vast Majority" of missed swings is under or below the ball? If a ball is going down well the miss will be above the ball generally, and if going up will be below the ball. With bad hitters who knows. If you see a batter swinging under a drop or over a riseball they know it's coming so don't throw it.

 

[CoachFP]

Here's my two cents. First off there is no such thing as a true "peel" drop. It is difficult to "pull up" on the ball as your arm is swinging around at full speed. Yeah, you can try it but the ball certainly won't be a drop ball. A peel drop is really a snapped pitch whereby your hand is behind the ball and snapped across your body using I/R. The rollover does not have the same whip and the pitcher must get on the side of the ball and push it down. The reason some people do this is because they can get a better downward angle on the pitch. Since the snap is minimized the pitch tends to be slower. I knew people who could throw both but the peel is by far the one with the sharper break. The peel drop concept, with the pull up on the ball, is something that someone dreamed up but in reality doesn't happen.

 

[Perfect Circle]

Here is a video illustrating the whole "peel" vs. "rollover" confusion...

Hey ... I thanked for your well presented outline (based on HSV as its premises)...and asked you a this question:

Before high speed photography, people believed that the hand came over the top of the ball at release. Some people still believe the rollover is thrown that way--they are wrong.

Great Post ! I'm wondering if you can expand the high speed photography?

What are the most popular cameras used @ the college level? How many fps is enough to be considered real college level information?

I see you been busy today, shutting down threads, & all ...ect. But your stuff is just being picked apart....point by point... So how about answering my question? For me you are adding to the confusion by only postin regular speed videos...break out the good stuff...thx

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Here is a video illustrating the whole "peel" vs. "rollover" confusion...

[video=youtube_share;X1ziC1eH7l4]http://youtu.be/X1ziC1eH7l4[/video]

Notice that she explains the "peel" method of throwing a drop...and then she throws a drop using a "rollover" technique to get the ball to move.

Michelle Smith is one of the top softball pitchers ever, and she doesn't even know what she is doing when throwing a drop.

She doesn't know what she is doing when she throws a riseball either. She would go on-and-on about how her riseball would magically jump as it approached a batter's bat, yet it never happened.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

This thread is getting out of hand. The "Vast Majority" of missed swings is under or below the ball? If a ball is going down well the miss will be above the ball generally, and if going up will be below the ball. With bad hitters who knows. If you see a batter swinging under a drop or over a riseball they know it's coming so don't throw it.

'Black' bold above ... "yes".

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Here's my two cents. First off there is no such thing as a true "peel" drop. It is difficult to "pull up" on the ball as your arm is swinging around at full speed. Yeah, you can try it but the ball certainly won't be a drop ball. A peel drop is really a snapped pitch whereby your hand is behind the ball and snapped across your body using I/R. The rollover does not have the same whip and the pitcher must get on the side of the ball and push it down. The reason some people do this is because they can get a better downward angle on the pitch. Since the snap is minimized the pitch tends to be slower. I knew people who could throw both but the peel is by far the one with the sharper break. The peel drop concept, with the pull up on the ball, is something that someone dreamed up but in reality doesn't happen.

In the cases where pitchers would demonstrate their "peel" and "rollover" to me, what I observed was that the "rollover" was a slower pitch (based on radar readings) ... and while it would give the appearance of having greater dropping movement, there was more time for gravity to do it's thing.

 

[Mike]

ffs, that is why I said arguably…..were not talking about rise balls….stay on topic.

the notion that peel drops are thrown without IR is silly.

 

[BoardMember]

Here's my two cents. First off there is no such thing as a true "peel" drop. It is difficult to "pull up" on the ball as your arm is swinging around at full speed. Yeah, you can try it but the ball certainly won't be a drop ball. A peel drop is really a snapped pitch whereby your hand is behind the ball and snapped across your body using I/R.

True enough..............

The rollover does not have the same whip and the pitcher must get on the side of the ball and push it down.

Physically impossible........

The reason some people do this is because they can get a better downward angle on the pitch.

True again........

Since the snap is minimized the pitch tends to be slower. I knew people who could throw both but the peel is by far the one with the sharper break. The peel drop concept, with the pull up on the ball, is something that someone dreamed up but in reality doesn't happen.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

ffs, that is why I said arguably…..were not talking about rise balls….stay on topic.

the notion that peel drops are thrown without IR is silly.

Relax there Mike. The statement was "Michelle Smith is one of the top softball pitchers ever, and she doesn't even know what she is doing when throwing a drop." Simply added that Michelle's knowledge of what her riseball does was also questionable.

As for the discussion ... FB (low with 12/6 rotation), peel, turn-over ... are all basically a dropball with a peeling action.