Shoulders Tied to Swing

[dhudson]

I have a couple of girls on my team that are not swinging the bat without opening up their shoulders at the same time they swing the bat. The begining of their swing does not have their hands moving independent of their shoulders.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to correct this? Thanks!

 

[Mark H]

Siggy's Hitting Clips - ImageEvent

Perhaps you could pick out one of these clips that best shows your goal.

 

[Fastpitch Trainer]

You have identified the cause of the problem here very well, since there is not any type of hand movement as they prepare to hit the ball, the shoulders will most likely skip the proper sequence and pull out too soon.

I have a drill on my website Home Page that I use to fix this problem, it is called the "switch drill". I would also reccomend my "open close drill" as well.

You are trying to promote a good, on time stretch as a hitter prepares to hit. I see most young ladies trying to set their hand position in their negative move, and they don't have constant hand movement during the swing. If they can keep the hands in motion, and steadily separate during their positive move, then you will find that:

1. The hand movement will cause the shoulders to counter rotate just before heel plant, remember it's important that the hand position to be the CAUSE of an inward shoulder turn and not be the EFFECT of proactive shoulder rotation inward.

and

2. This will allow the hands to be in constant motion, for a quicker first move into the hitting zone

Typically the longer the hands stay at rest, the more likely it is for a hitter to try and initiate shoulder rotation and let the front shoulder fly out or try and power the swing.

Mark Mulvany
Fastpitch Trainer
Home Page
Coach@Fastpitchtrainer.com

 

[Mark H]

1. The hand movement will cause the shoulders to counter rotate just before heel plant, remember it's important that the hand position to be the CAUSE of an inward shoulder turn and not be the EFFECT of proactive shoulder rotation inward.

Sounds like you are working around the subject of scap loading as some call it? In any case, I think any advice we offer without a video of the hitter/s in question is at best using the SWAG method.

 

[dhudson]

Thanks for all of the information. I'll check everything out and apply what I find.

 

[SBFAMILY]

Sounds llike what Candera calls a gate swing and he uses a drill call Live and Independent hands. Without seeing the swing, not sure if this will help. I have a couple of students that have this problem.

 

[RayR]

So, I am to understand that this whole, "live and independent hands" thing is a reference to scap loading or at least the loading phase of the swing and not the first move to the ball?

That sounds OK to me, but if we are talking about trying to move the bat without the shoulders moving as well...

The hands need to stay near the rear shoulder to lag position then nature will take its course. To do this the shoulders have to turn.

 

[Fastpitch Trainer]

Correct, if the hands are going back, this will in fact cause the shoulders to turn. The main point is that we want the shoulders to be the effect of what the hands do, and not the cause of what the hands do. If the shoulders turn in because the hands moved back, then great. If the hands moved because of a shoulder turn, then not so great.

You are not trying to move the bat without any type of shoulder turn, you basically want the Cause/Effect relationship to be right.

 

[RayR]

Correct, if the hands are going back, this will in fact cause the shoulders to turn. The main point is that we want the shoulders to be the effect of what the hands do, and not the cause of what the hands do. If the shoulders turn in because the hands moved back, then great. If the hands moved because of a shoulder turn, then not so great.

You are not trying to move the bat without any type of shoulder turn, you basically want the Cause/Effect relationship to be right.

But, to be clear the hands are being moved by the muscles in the back (scapula attachments) via the arms. You can get some sub optimal movement by focusing on the hands. My checkpoint is - are the angles formed at the elbows changing much during the load phase and again during the initial unload.


Photo 10 of 16, Fastpitch

 

[RayR]

See David Wright, for example:

http://groundup.hittingillustrated.com/hitting/david_wright_hands.wmv

Thanks for making my point! If you turn down the sound and play the clip frame by frame the angle formed at his elbow doesn't change all that much during the load and through the initial phase of the swing.

And if you notice in the bottom arm swings, the front scap is working especially well in getting the bat around.