Should I Protest Game?

[ang4yanks]

I am not insinuating this is Darrell's case. I am, however, still miffed when coaches and parents jump all over umpires. It will never serve one's team well. I think it does the very opposite and sets one's team up for discrimination. Umpires rotate...one is bound to come up against him again. Challenging an umpire must be handled with sportsmanlike conduct.

Ang

 

[darrellw]

Thanks Everyone for Replies and....

I've made the decision to not protest the game. Even though I am still a bit confused as to whether the pitcher's illegal steps are not a clear rule violation vs. an umpire's judgement call.

One thing I am going to do is to ask our Town's league rep to send a letter to the other Town's league rep asking that the rules be made known to the umps so we are all on a level playing field. One thing I do want to make clear is that I was very courteous to the umpire and the opposing head coach. But here is another part to this whole situation and wondering what others would do:

As said above, the opposing coach was very understanding although he claimed that he "never heard of that pitching rule". However, one of his assistants was very less than diplomatic. Even though I was trying to speak to the head coach one-on-one, he kept interupting the conversation and at one point said, "We don't go by ASA rules...we play (name of Town) rules."

Once the game was over he intentionally waited until for my assistant coach and I to start making the long walk across the field to the parking lot. We were no sooner past 2nd base when he started making all kinds of remarks about the game. One was, "you're upset because our girls kicked your girls' (you can fill in the swear word here". I told him that we were merely pointing out the rules to which he just continued to throw comments our way that included, "you need to learn how to coach" and "you must be real proud of yourself for protesting a game". Even as we tried to walk even further away he just kept on badgering.

In my opinion, this man does not belong as an assistant to any team. There were players from his team and ours within earshot of his remarks. The game was over, I said my peace to the umpire and the other head coach before we left and shook hands. I feel his assistant coach was way out of line and should at the very least be spoken to by his Town's rep.

Should I being saying something about this?

 

[ang4yanks]

Darrell:

You need to make that judgment call, but I will share this. Pick your battles carefully. Is this a sword you are willing to die on?

The game is about the children, teaching them skills, and building memories. I tell my own children that "Everyone I meet is an example to me." The behavior of others is something I am NOT responsible for, but I am responsible for my response. What is the greater lesson for what the children see. Is it advocating? Is it walking away the bigger person? How will my response add to or help clear the dysfuntion? Can I have an ethical exchange with this person/people?

When we began this journey, I wanted to right every wrong. On the crusade, I quickly realized that every one of my responses was having a consequence...good or bad. Sadly, the minority of the people I have come in contact with want to operate ethically and for the betterment of the whole, putting their own interests aside (which includes making coaching decisions that will best serve their child and not the team). Some of the battles we have chosen left my children wounded on the battlefield. It took me time to see it. I have had to draw some boundaries, emotionally detach from what I deem less important, and I keep a mental file cabinet so I can make right choices for the future. It is hard to keep emotions at bay in any sport, because the nature of sports is standing face to face with your emotions. I look back on my regrets. I regret the times I operated off of my emotions instead of wisdom.

Good luck,

Ang

 

[hallelujah]

Here's what I think you should do:

Firstly, it doesn't sound that a 7th/8th grade team with one umpire who is only at five innings in two hours is anything TOO high level or competitive. I'm not saying it isn't, but it's not anything of championship level by the sound of it.

The umpire was wrong, and though she is still learning, she has to be able to learn from her mistakes. I suggest you talk to her "boss" or umpire in chief, and let him know that he has to go over certain rules with his umpires, specifically the one you had. A lot of umpires may just be stubborn and won't take any advice from coaches who are most likely arguing their calls. Talk to the boss, and have him explain the rule to her, and clear up the time thing, so she doesn't make the mistake again. Everyone has to learn from their mistakes, and if someone talks to her about the ones she made, she will be sure not to make the same mistake again.

Personally, I would say NEVER throw out a rule book on the field. Any umpire with any decency would toss you for it. I know I would. In my opinion it is a complete lack of respect. Yes, umpires make mistakes, but these things need to be addressed privately, after a game or something. But bringing out a rule book onto the field to prove something to an umpire is rude; a lack of respect and a slap in the face. Prepare to be tossed if you do this.

Umpires are always learning, and this one seems like he/she had a lot to learn, so talk to the boss and have him help her learn from her mistakes.

 

[kskt4]

I am in agreement with Ken. We have been to many tournaments where the other pitcher is either hopping, or stepping. Either way, they are pitching illegal. It is best to bring it to the umpires attention and make them aware that for the best interest for the girl that she learn as soon as possible to pitch properly. Very, very hard to change bad habits whan they get older. Unfortunately the other coach will think you are an a@@. But you can rest assured he will thank you for it later.

After all, it's for the best interest of the young pitcher!!

Ken

 

[ang4yanks]

Hallelujah says, "Personally, I would say NEVER throw out a rule book on the field. Any umpire with any decency would toss you for it. I know I would. In my opinion it is a complete lack of respect. Yes, umpires make mistakes, but these things need to be addressed privately, after a game or something. But bringing out a rule book onto the field to prove something to an umpire is rude; a lack of respect and a slap in the face. Prepare to be tossed if you do this. Umpires are always learning, and this one seems like he/she had a lot to learn, so talk to the boss and have him help her learn from her mistakes."

Hallelujah...No one in this thread has suggested rude behavior is acceptable under any circumstance. With all due respect, please read my post again without misconstruing it. We have been shown considerable respect by umpires in our area, and the feeling is mutual. You said it best when you stated umpires are always learning...so are the participants of the game. We have never come close to being thrown out of the game, my husband has never even gotten into a heated argument with an umpire, and we've been around awhile. Sometimes the umpire takes the book and clears up misinterpretation of the rules. Decency, rudeness, and lack of respect have no place in youth sports... Operation in truth and grace

My husband doesn't charge the field with the rulebook, Ken, but he will talk to the umpire between innings and respectfully challenge if need be

A couple of weeks ago, there was controversy over showing the ball. Tricky rule and hard to call, but the rule states, "The pitcher must show the ball, no less than one second and no longer than ten seconds." Respectfully between innings my husband stated the rule, but hostility grew (even parents). My husband grabbed the book which was a peacemaker. My husband reinforced the umpire's call and settled the parents (the controversy was about the opposing pitcher). Of course, my husband's choice to support the other team was not handled well by some. We like a clean win.

I would never suggest slamming the rulebook in anyone's face. When handled diplomatically, it serves as an arbitrator. It sounds to me as if she was dealing with inexperienced umpires (which is the case in school ball in our area). There are the two umpires on the field and that's it...not many who have a solid handle on the rules.

Additionally, you made my point by saying, "making sure a person understands..." I have often watched that become an irreconcilable situation because most active coaches and umpires believe they are each right. The rulebook settles the argument...it doesn't create one.

Respectfully,

Ang

 

[hallelujah]

Oh don't get me wrong, I didn't mean to say that your husband is disrespectful or anything. I am just saying that although some young kids umpiring may accept it, when you do get into higher levels of ball, bringing a rule book onto the field to make a point or establish a rule will become unacceptable by an umpire. For measurements and things like that, I'm sure it's fine, but in the situation you talked about where the umpire said he/she wasn't aware of a rule, I would say that bringing a rule book out during the game to show him/her that it is wouldn't be the best idea (more likely in higher levels of ball).

There are a lot of parents out there who simply do not know the rules of the game, and yes, bringing out a rule book to explain it to them is probably a good idea. I didn't mean to say that your husband was being rude at all, sorry if it came off that way. I just meant to say that bringing a rule book onto the playing field to make a point on a judgment call or interpretation of a rule is an extremely risky move.

I still find it extremely hard to comprehend how an umpire, even if it is her first game, doesn't know that a pitcher can`t disconnect the pivot foot from the ground. That is pretty absurd in my opinion, I would definitely talk to her or the district umpire in chief to make sure he teaches her to understand that rule, because that is quite a big mistake on her part.

Again, I didn't mean any disrespect to you or your husband, I was just trying to say in a general fashion that rule books on the field usually aren't a good idea, though it may vary depending on where you are I suppose. Where I live, they'll definitely get you tossed 90% of the time if you're using it in any fashion during the game to prove a point for/against a call.

Best of luck with your situation, and I hope that someone does teach or explain to that you umpire the basic pitching rules!

 

[Ken Krause]

Ang, it sounds like your husband handles it the same way I do. I let the umpire know I have a rulebook, and offer to show it to him/her between inning so he/she can check it out. I've had a few take me up on it, and they appreciate the way it's handled. I'm not there trying to show them up, I'm just trying to make sure the game is played fairly and correctly.

Another option at a tournament is to seek out the umpire in chief -- assuming it's a rule issue and not a judgment call. The UIC can overrule the field umpire if the rules are not being interpreted correctly.

Oddly enough, one of the rules the Blues I've seen have the most trouble with is the courtesy runner. ASA rules are pretty clear -- you can run for the pitcher or catcher at any time, regardless of the number of outs, as long as it's someone not in the game. I've had umpires say no courtesy runners, or only after two outs (which I seem to recall was the rule a few years ago). It's a pretty basic rule so I'm surprised when they don't know it -- especially when you have a time limit on the game.

Ultimately in this case, I still believe the best thing to do is talk to whoever is in charge of umpires to make sure the Blues in his/her charge know and understand the rules. There's a lot for young umpires to learn so be patient with them.

Darrell, as far as that assistant goes, he acted like a jerk. I don't know if that's his usual demeanor or he was just having a bad day. But sometimes you just have to consider the source and walk away. And hope that the head coach or league director encourages him to find something else to do with his time going forward.

 

[darrellw]

Lots of Feedback Here!

Wow! Thanks to everyone who contributed to this post. Lots of advice and things to consider. Here is what I did:

This past Satuday I went down and spoke to our director of rec who is the rep for us in this league. I gave him the whole story and asked for his advice. Here is what he has me doing:

I'm composing a letter to him to submit the facts surrounding the game. Although we will not consider it a formal protest he wants it to go to the other town's rep. Our intention is the hope that this rep will go over the rules with the umpires. Second purpose is that he hopes that the rep will take action against the assistant coach who had so much to say during and especially after the game.

One comment that I will make: Not sure I agree with some of the remarks that slant towards what "competive level" these girls are at. Some are 8th graders and their next step up from here, if they continue to play, is high school softball. We have freshman, jv and varsity teams so there are many possible slots. This being the case, I try my best to make certain that we play by the rules so that these young ladies also learn the rules. I treat knowing the rules as another 'skill': if you learn the correct way at this level then you are much better off for it at the next level.

Thanks again for all the posts.

Darrell

 

[Bish2]

I feel your pain

Well first if you are playing under ASA rules you will need two umpires on the field, ASA also says you can't step off the mound before pitching as well.

As a coach I am starting a new program and we too get the short end of the stick when it comes to softball in our area. No one really understands the game and for me as a former college player its very difficult. I would call the local umpires association and just make them aware of the fact that maybe this young umpire needs some further training.

I understand where you are coming from and its not about how much talent your team has or if your program isn't as good as some of the people on here seem to think theirs are its about improving and making something from nothing. And if you think that this could be a problem then yes talk to the board about it and see if there is something they can do make them aware of the situation but don't blow it out of content. If you want to improve your program you have to take steps to do that. You need to so what you feel is right and what is right for the kids. I had a lot of games this season that were 2 hours and only in the 5th or run ruled 15 in 3. Its embarrassing but we are new, just learning and trying our best to build a program our community and athletes will be proud to be a part of. Everyone has to start somewhere. Take pride in trying to make something better rather than letting it slip because " your team isn't worth defending".