Should coaches or catchers call pitches?

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Jan 10, 2022
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You are missing sooooooo many intangibles here.

you can say pitchers only have a FB and Change at 14 and under, but a critical component your missing is location. In addition, if all your seeing is FB and change, its more of a reflection of the level you playing (I mean no disrespect).

Base runners, inning, score, field conditions, where your at in the order, prior at bats info, wind, is it a bunting situation, slapper versus power, etc. Pitch calling is as much about the outcome your trying to achieve. I also believe that there are certain keys to read in a hitters stance and/or swing. I'm all for a catcher calling a game, if they can account for all of these components. How many games would a catcher have to catch to equal that of an experienced pitch calling coach?

You are missing what I said. I said “most” 14 and unders have two pitches. That’s a fact. Then I immediately mentioned location. Given what I said and not what you said l said, I say stick with catcher deciding calling pitches and location. A good coach will be able to prepare their catcher for that.

Now given what you said, we are talking a different level of game and pitcher and opponent and I think your analysis nails it. I believe a coach is in a far more advantageous position behind the fence to call the pitches because of almost everything you mentioned.


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May 17, 2012
2,804
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That's not what I said. I don't think that what I am saying is that controversial.

If I dropped you into a Korean Baseball game where you didn't know any of the parties involved (hitter or pitcher) do you think you could use your "skill" to call a series of pitches that is better than a random series of pitches pulled out of a hat?

I don't think you can.

Of course in the real world no one calls pitches in a vacuum so you almost always have some data available. Using data to leverage an outcome is not a skill.

The OP threw a vague question out to start a discussion. I just don't think pitch calling is a skill that everyone conveniently happens to be good at it. Sure you could call pitches down the middle over and over and be bad at it but no one does that. I don't think your random is better than my random. I just don't and if it is the delta is so small it just doesn't matter.

Don't take my word on it, try it some time. We did....
 
Last edited:

radness

Possibilities & Opportunities!
Dec 13, 2019
7,270
113
That's not what I said. I don't think that what I am saying is that controversial.

If I dropped you into a Korean Baseball game where you didn't know any of the parties involved (hitter or pitcher) do you think you could use your "skill" to call a series of pitches that is better than a random series of pitches pulled out of a hat?

I don't think you can.

Of course in the real world no one calls pitches in a vacuum so you almost always have some data available. Using data to leverage an outcome is not a skill.

The OP threw a vague question out to start a discussion. I just don't think pitch calling is a skill that everyone conveniently happens to be good at it. Sure you could call pitches down the middle over and over and be bad at it but no one does that. So do I think your random is better than my random. I just don't and if it is the delta is so small it just doesn't matter.

Don't take my word on it, try it some time. We did....
Okay thank you this explanation!
Would like to point out that a pitcher throwing will at least know themselves when entering a game. What usually works for them and what doesn't. If anything to call their own game.

Brand new pitcher and catcher working together~

(Pending level of competency)
imo
There is skill brought with experience.
There can be a catcher getting to know the pitcher
warming up.
And during the game.
Who can use that assessment calling pitches.
There can still be visual tool assessment of pitches control of speeds, spin and location stuff. Called using experience.

________________________
Will also say that players can exude a level of confidence or show weakness. That for a pitchers performance their confidence or lack of in the catcher can make a difference as well.
Another hard to measure yet important factor.
______________________
As much as I think it's important to include the pitchers feedback about communicating calling pitches. It is equally important for pitchers to utilize the catchers feedback in return. To make their individual assessments.
 
Jun 8, 2016
16,118
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Of course in the real world no one calls pitches in a vacuum so you almost always have some data available. Using data to leverage an outcome is not a skill.
With this definition, is hitting a skill then? How about catching groundballs?Flyballs? In both cases "data" (in the form of pitch trajectory/spin, hops/speed, ball trajectory/speed, etc) is processed by the brain to get the best outcome, right? Some do it better than others (through repetition/training), and combined with athletic ability (which obviously isn't a factor in pitch calling), which gives consistently better outcomes.

My guess is that your response is going to be geared towards the difference between data and information, which may be a valid argument..maybe.
 
Last edited:
Apr 20, 2018
4,581
113
SoCal
"If I dropped you into a Korean Baseball game where you didn't know any of the parties involved (hitter or pitcher) do you think you could use your "skill" to call a series of pitches that is better than a random series of pitches pulled out of a hat?"

Yes
 

radness

Possibilities & Opportunities!
Dec 13, 2019
7,270
113
?@GS? Data, you'll have to explain that. Is that only a numerical word for you?
Like statistics?
 
May 17, 2012
2,804
113
With this definition, is hitting a skill then? How about catching groundballs?Flyballs? In both cases "data" (in the form of pitch trajectory/spin, hops/speed, ball trajectory/speed, etc) is processed by the brain to get the best outcome, right? Some do it better than others (through repetition/training), and combined with athletic ability (which obviously isn't a factor in pitch calling), gives consistently better outcomes.

I agree but in your example of hitting there are other factors (physical and mechanical) besides the data (mental) that determine the outcome.

You would think if it was a skill that catchers would be better hitters on average.
 

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