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Sequence?

Apr 20, 2018
2,361
113
SoCal
Sequence. I hear the word used a lot. Is there one correct sequence? Is there a firing order? Think automobile spark plugs.

So a hitter get loaded and stretched (just before heel plant or front foot down) Let's assume the hitter is in a good position here. Good spine angle, balanced and hands in a good spot.

What is the sequence from here? Do muscles fire in a specific order? Like forearms (ttb), glute, obliques, quads ,scap, forearms or do they all fire at once? (suddenous/ explode) Could one hitter do it one way and another hitter do differently but both be very good hitters?
 
May 9, 2019
286
43
The way I taught my DD was, hitting starts at the feet, and works it's way up all the way to the hands, then the barrel.

With that in mind, the first phase of all sequences involves the coil, or pull back, then an explosive release.

In regards to the actual sequence, again everything starts at the feet. The pull and the release, both start at the feet and go in the same order through the release.

I used the analogy of a bow and arrow. You must pull back or create negative energy to generate explosive positive energy.

Once she got this understood clearly, then we went onto what I call the one, two, three drill, where I would clump each movement into three phases, the third obviously being the actual swing. This worked really well for my DD, but may not for yours. Just sharing my experiences. :)
 
Jul 29, 2013
1,200
63
Sequence. I hear the word used a lot. Is there one correct sequence? Is there a firing order? Think automobile spark plugs.

So a hitter get loaded and stretched (just before heel plant or front foot down) Let's assume the hitter is in a good position here. Good spine angle, balanced and hands in a good spot.

What is the sequence from here? Do muscles fire in a specific order? Like forearms (ttb), glute, obliques, quads ,scap, forearms or do they all fire at once? (suddenous/ explode) Could one hitter do it one way and another hitter do differently but both be very good hitters?
Here's one to try without much complication:
From a regular relaxed stance, stride as though turning to walk toward the pitcher.
During the stride tilt the barrel toward the pitcher and point the knob toward the catcher by raising the rear elbow above the hands with the front elbow down again the ribs.
Then, throw the barrel in a rearward arc away from the ball. As the barrel moves rearward, the front arm will be stretched across the torso.
Turn your body to rotate the barrel to the ball.
Toss the bat and jog around the bases.
The harder you throw the barrel rearward, the more effort you'll have to apply to get it to turn to the ball and the further the ball will go when you hit it.
Don't get bogged down in what muscles fire and when. Your body will figure it out much the same way you learned to walk.
 
Oct 13, 2014
3,715
113
South Cali
Since I am one of the culprits that throws that word around a lot. I will give a detailed description to what I mean.

Imo there is a sequence to load and unload.

I want the load to move middle out (balance). With the ground force starting the process. Getting into the ground while establishing posture and the posterior chain which simultaneously counter rotates the middle if one creates a load in the Sagittal plane, while momentum takes the body forward. The obliques are being reactively stretched during this phase.


At the finish of the load ( toe touch/ heel down ) the slack should be completely taken out of the core and the mass should be in between the knees (shifted) to a new position in space (dynamically).


Once the load is complete, the weight will shift, the hips will start to rotate forward due to angular momentum while the core and upper body reactively resists this rotation only because of the sync of the loading sequence. There shouldn’t be any active holding or clamping etc.


At this point it’s about accelerating and decelerating the rotation of the hips, core ,arms, hands and lastly the bat...

The hips have gotten a head start opening while the core/chest is stretched backward. The core is pulled forward as is the chest after the core and eventually the lead arm which is leveraged by the wrist and serves as a fulcrum to the bat.


The goal is not to rotate as hard as you can into the ball (drag ) but to actually decel the rotation in sequence to speed up the rotation of the next ‘lever’ in the sequence. Eventually to create a reactive ‘whip’ effect and catapult like rotational acceleration in the swing.


https://twitter.com/onbaseu/status/1138936648622780416?s=21

Powering the swing with anything but the middle of the body and the ground is inefficient and will lead to compensations. Of course all of this is in my honest opinion.
 
Aug 20, 2020
28
3
Since I am one of the culprits that throws that word around a lot. I will give a detailed description to what I mean.

Imo there is a sequence to load and unload.

I want the load to move middle out (balance). With the ground force starting the process. Getting into the ground while establishing posture and the posterior chain which simultaneously counter rotates the middle if one creates a load in the Sagittal plane, while momentum takes the body forward. The obliques are being reactively stretched during this phase.



At the finish of the load ( toe touch/ heel down ) the slack should be completely taken out of the core and the mass should be in between the knees (shifted) to a new position in space (dynamically).



Once the load is complete, the weight will shift, the hips will start to rotate forward due to angular momentum while the core and upper body reactively resists this rotation only because of the sync of the loading sequence. There shouldn’t be any active holding or clamping etc.


At this point it’s about accelerating and decelerating the rotation of the hips, core ,arms, hands and lastly the bat...

The hips have gotten a head start opening while the core/chest is stretched backward. The core is pulled forward as is the chest after the core and eventually the lead arm which is leveraged by the wrist and serves as a fulcrum to the bat.


The goal is not to rotate as hard as you can into the ball (drag ) but to actually decel the rotation in sequence to speed up the rotation of the next ‘lever’ in the sequence. Eventually to create a reactive ‘whip’ effect and catapult like rotational acceleration in the swing.



Powering the swing with anything but the middle of the body and the ground is inefficient and will lead to compensations. Of course all of this is in my honest opinion.
Some further questions about this. Would you say that the following statements are generally true of a good swing:

1. The batter (one way or another) gets into a position of hip/shoulder separation, i.e., hips (pointing roughly toward the pitcher) are offset from the shoulders (pointing roughly down the first base line [for a righty]).

2. Once the swing is launched, the hips rotate at least until the point-of-contact, i.e., until the bat contacts the ball.

3. At the point of contact, the hips and shoulders are aligned, i.e., no longer offset/separated.

I realize there may be some variations in certain swings based on pitch location, missed timing, etc., but do the above statements generally describe what happens in a swing? If so, doesn't that negate the common assertion that the swing occurs in a sequence, starting from the ground up? How would the shoulders catch up to the hips if the shoulders are waiting for the hips to decelerate before the shoulders are activated?

To me, it seems that having two components (hips and shoulders) rotating on top of each other would be faster and stronger than one after the other.

Here's a good slo-mo clip of Cabrera that seems to illustrate the point. At the start of the clip, his hips and shoulders are separated. His hips and shoulders both appear to be rotating forward, with the shoulders outpacing the hips until they catch up at point-of-contact, or thereabouts. Simultaneous rotations, one on top of the other.

 
Oct 13, 2014
3,715
113
South Cali
Some further questions about this. Would you say that the following statements are generally true of a good swing:

1. The batter (one way or another) gets into a position of hip/shoulder separation, i.e., hips (pointing roughly toward the pitcher) are offset from the shoulders (pointing roughly down the first base line [for a righty]).

Yes


2. Once the swing is launched, the hips rotate at least until the point-of-contact, i.e., until the bat contacts the ball.

No

3. At the point of contact, the hips and shoulders are aligned, i.e., no longer offset/separated.

on some locations or lower half body positioning. Not all. In order to get proper hip extension through the ball I think the legs act as stabilizing agents and they resist one another forcing extension not rotation.

I realize there may be some variations in certain swings based on pitch location, missed timing, etc., but do the above statements generally describe what happens in a swing? If so, doesn't that negate the common assertion that the swing occurs in a sequence, starting from the ground up? How would the shoulders catch up to the hips if the shoulders are waiting for the hips to decelerate before the shoulders are activated?

i think the energy flow is always ground up. Energy starts from the ground and is transferred up through the chain and into the bat. When the hips start their initial rotation that is a stretch reflex. From there the back hip resists the front hips pull or stretch reflex . the obliques pull the hips up and around which appears like hip ‘rotation’. For me the ground initiates the sequence. But the middle of the body initiates swing launch or the release of the energy to start the actual kinetic chain. For me there is the start and a launch. It’s kinda complicated to explain in detail.

To me, it seems that having two components (hips and shoulders) rotating on top of each other would be faster and stronger than one after the other.

I tend to agree w you. It would be faster. But is that what the goal is? To be as fast as possible? Or to be fast enough w the ability to adjust to different speeds, locations and to see the pitch for as long as possible w/o getting fooled as much?


Here's a good slo-mo clip of Cabrera that seems to illustrate the point. At the start of the clip, his hips and shoulders are separated. His hips and shoulders both appear to be rotating forward, with the shoulders outpacing the hips until they catch up at point-of-contact, or thereabouts. Simultaneous rotations, one on top of the other.

at POC I see the shoulders past the hips. Basically closed the gap of separation

answers embedded. Hopefully I answered your questions.
 
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