Season canceled - no refund offered

[Sweet Lou]

Our league offered $100 refund to anyone who wanted it. League fee was $210. So a little under a 50% refund. There was also an option to donate your refund to the league which is what we did.

Most teams played between 0 and 3 games before season was cancelled but yes there are a number of non-refundable expenses the league had from field rental, balls and uniforms, probably some other stuff.

 

[Dabears17]

Maybe I missed the check in the mail, but the rec league I umpired two games for before they shut down the season hasn't paid me yet.

 

[Triple Play Sports]

@CloudofDust Yeah, I would expect $100 minimum in refunds to the parents. If that organization has that many teams, I am wondering why the uniforms are not sponsored by say McDonalds or someone similar, which cut the uniform costs down significantly. It really sounds like that board is not doing what it was intended to do based on what you are saying.

Most people that I encounter during this time are trying to do the right thing by everyone. DD's organization froze required payments and froze the player accounts until things clear up. Many tournament organizers are offering full refunds, less cc or processing fees for tournaments that have been moved or rescheduled. Camps are pretty much the same. I have seen one tournament that would not give a full refund and it will ultimately hurt them when things settle down after this, as it should.

 

[HarryChimp71]

Varies by age, but around $150, with the offer being a 25% credit to a future season.



Thanks, I know you've run an organization before, so I was hoping to get your perspective. I suspect you're dead-on with the assumption of where the money is going. We're talking about close to $500K across the entire organization.



Yes, this is a recreational "non-profit" league that uses city-owned fields for games and practices.

Balls - these are league-issued game balls of fairly low quality. I can buy the same quality, at RETAIL price, for less than $50/dozen. Yes, they can definitely be used next season. But, let's just say they expense that from the registration fee. $50/12 players = $4.17

Uniforms - jerseys are made of cheap material that barely lasts one season. Still, these were customized, sized and ordered. They were given to players, but hardly justify the cost of the registration. I'm pretty sure the org takes a big cut from uniform orders. I'd conservatively estimate uniform (hat and shirt) out-of-pocket costs at $30 per player.

Umpire fees - Completely agree that this an unjustifiable expense as no games were played. Any pre-season training should be excluded.

They did mention insurance and I don't really have any experience with league-wide insurance policies, but I think USSSA charges about $150 per team for a full year. $150/12 players = $12.50

So, based on the above, I would think $100 REFUND, not a credit, would be a very reasonable expectation from the league.

I recommend contacting the Board in writing, specifically the President and Treasurer, requesting the most recent Treasurer's Report.

Serving as the president of a local rec ball league, the highest costs were (in no order):
Food, supplies, and rent for operating the snack bar, though the snack bar turned a profit. IMO, not enough for all the parent drama.
Uniforms (averaged between $25-30 per player)
Power (the local city charged $10 per hour). Costs significantly reduced after Daylight Savings.
Umpires ($40 per game and only used one umpire).
League Insurance and Board Insurance ($1500 annually for a 150 member rec ball league)
Equipment (balls, buckets and lids, bownets, tees, flat bases, chalk and spray paint for lining fields, perhaps catcher's gear). This cost varies on the quantities needed to replenish from previous season.

As others have stated, league insurance, upfront snack bar costs, league insurance, and equipment should be the only costs paid out.

I'm in Southern California, and I have never heard of a rec league with 250 teams. The largest ones that come to mind are PYL, Downey, Pico, Charter Oaks, Glendora Lassie League, Torrance GSL.

Regardless, request the Treasurer's Report which should show cash on hand and recent expenditures. If your league cannot produce this report, then contact the softball organization that the league is affiliated with.

 

[diamond14]

Not enough to get a lawyer involved, IMHO. But to some I am sure it is enough that the director may get a beat down after getting a late nite coffee at WaWa!

 

[STRIKE3]

Our local baseball and softball organization recently made the decision to cancel the season. We have over 250 teams across the entire organization and, while we did have a few practices, not a single game was played.

The league cited various upfront expenses (balls, equipment, jerseys, umpire fees) as the reason why they will not refund everyone's registration fees. Instead, parents will get a credit (about 25% of the registration fee) to apply to a future season.

Several parents on my team are really upset about this and are threatening a number of actions, including lawsuits.

How have other organizations handled cancellations/refunds and what recourse do parents have?

Cloud of Dust, I don't want to put you on the spot so please feel free not to answer, but is this rec-league in Texas? If the answer is yes, then the next question would be is it in North Texas?

Again, fee free not to answer, only if you are comfortable.

S3

 

[CloudofDust]

I'm in Southern California, and I have never heard of a rec league with 250 teams. The largest ones that come to mind are PYL, Downey, Pico, Charter Oaks, Glendora Lassie League, Torrance GSL.

Regardless, request the Treasurer's Report which should show cash on hand and recent expenditures. If your league cannot produce this report, then contact the softball organization that the league is affiliated with.

Thank you very much for your insight and suggestions. The 250 is a combined team total across baseball and softball, with the majority being baseball. Baseball players paid the same registration amounts and were offered the same credit option when the season was canceled.

 

[Dabears17]

I was on the board of a rec league for 8 years, and served as an advisor for 2 years after that. Going over a few budgets I dug out from 2013-2015, at a minimum, 60 pct of our expenses were occurred once the first practice occurred, and I could make a case that 70pct of our expenses had occurred. If the insurance company would refund the premiums, we would of been able to refund ~$20 on top of the 30-40% we hadn't spent.

If there weren't any games played, did the league have to refund any sponsor money?

I haven't been involved with the board since spring of 2017, so I don't know what they decided to do when the season was canceled after 3 games for most teams.

 

[wheresmycar]

If you can afford it, donate your fee to the league. It would be a shame if your league folded because too many demanded a refund.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Yes, this is a recreational "non-profit" league that uses city-owned fields for games and practices.

Going to cut your reply down to save on space, but I will address most of it ... (I should cut mine down ... sorry! )

I should have asked first ... I assumed it was a travel team program operating for a profit (or an income anyway). Knowing it is a rec league and we are talking $150 may change some of my perspective ... most programs like this do NOT pay their administrators unlike a for-profit (or for-income) travel program.

Like @Dabears17 said, the vast majority of our expenses were spent before the season ever began. That doesn't mean they are all unrecoverable though. I totally disagree with sticking parents for the bill for a service you did not provide though ... more on that at the end.

The program I ran was pretty in-line with @HarryChimp71 's program. We were typically around 200 kids and our annual budget was usually about $30,000 of expenditures (just talking money out, not PNL). We are in a highly impoverished school district.

Our insurance was paid in full in advance of the season. It has been quite a while, but I believe it was around $2k-$2,500. That went up under my time there because we found out they had not been carrying property insurance on the concession stand and equipment shed. (Tangent: a few years after I left, we had a horrendous storm that dropped a 150+ year-old tree on the concession stand. They have a nice new stand now.) If I were running the league today, I would be reaching out to our insurance agent to cancel the liability insurance for the remainder of the season (NOT the property insurance) and get as much refunded as possible. Just because the policy is paid in full up front does NOT mean it is a sunk cost.

Uniforms in this case are a sunk cost. We typically spent about $25 - $30 on uniforms. If it were me today, as a customer service I would give parents the option of purchasing the uniform at cost. If uniforms had already been handed out, I would require them to be returned for a refund. (No, we probably wouldn't be able to use them next year, but it is the principle.) If uniforms had been worn, I would push a little harder on "they are yours" but I wouldn't stick hard on that if you only played 1 or 2 games.

Umpire fees -- as I said, unless you played games, no umpires have been paid anything. In this area, two licensed umpires would run you about $80/game ($40 each) for summer league games. In my rec league time, I was fortunate to have two guys who had been doing it since before the game was invented. They weren't licensed and they didn't do any other umpiring. This has been their summer "getaway" for over twenty years. They made $25/game each.

Balls and other equipment were not something I bought "because it was a new year". They were replaced or replenished as needed. That is an operational cost. Anything on hand can be used the next year.

Again, like @HarryChimp71 said, they may have sunk some start-up costs into stocking the concession stand. I think our product start-up cost each year was around $1,000 (but we ran a full-service concession stand with fryers and food). Again, if I was still there ... this would have been donated to the local food pantry as soon as we knew we weren't playing. Just a cost we'd eat. Depending on how they shop, their vendor may or may not take product back.

We did carry team sponsors ... I would refund this to sponsors, but would ask them to consider donating it since the uniforms were paid for and IF the kids still got them.

All that said, I took my organization in a different direction financially than what they had seen in their history. I insisted that we have enough money in the bank that we could fund the league for a year if something happened and we had ZERO revenue. This started because we needed so much start-up revenue before we took in any money (and there had been a history of questionable accounting). As I became more experienced, it became more of an emergency management plan. I had some contentious board members who fought me on this. They are now running the program during a time where that is essentially happening. I wonder how they are doing.

If your program is operating in a manner that you feel you have to stick it the parents, you are doing something wrong and somebody else needs to take over. Yes, their registration fees are ONE of your major sources of revenue ... but they didn't register to buy equipment, pay umpires, stock a concession stand, or pay insurance. Those are things YOU need to do to provide the games for them to play, but they are not things they paid for. They are costs of doing business and you need a better plan on how to run your business.

I do agree with @wheresmycar on supporting the local program ... I don't like a league, particularly one of that size, that just says "we are keeping it" though.