Scorekeeping Question

[Eric F]

On a ground ball to F8, I would score it a hit for the batter, and mark the other base-runner out at the appropriate base, noting the players involved (8-6, for example). Scoring it an FC takes away a hit from the batter. Unless the fielder who first gets the ball has a pretty routine chance to get the batter out, it's not an FC.

This is my understanding. I could be wrong.

 

[Lightning]

Is this absolute in all instances? For example, Runner on 1, hard grounder towards the hole between F6 and second base. F6 dives, ball deflects off of her glove towards second base (not an E) and F4 gets to ball and touches 2B before R1 gets there for the force out. B1 safe at 1...and would have been a hit all day long even if there was no R1. Fielders Choice? So there is no scorekeepers judgment that comes into play?

edited - posted this before seeing the last post, so I think I know the answer.

I would call that a FC and an unlucky batter. The way I learned to score, if the runner has to advance on the play but doesn't make it safely to the next base, it's a fielder's choice. If the runner touched second and then was tagged out trying to make it to third, I could call that a base hit, runner out on the basepaths. But with a force out I don't see it as a judgment call.

 

[Softball scholar]

On a ground ball to F8, I would score it a hit for the batter, and mark the other base-runner out at the appropriate base, noting the players involved (8-6, for example). Scoring it an FC takes away a hit from the batter. Unless the fielder who first gets the ball has a pretty routine chance to get the batter out, it's not an FC.

This is my understanding. I could be wrong.

You still have to score it as an FC if the ball is hit to the outfield but a runner gets forced out. It doesn't matter if it was a good hit, you cant score it as a hit. Sometimes, the batter gets unlucky in scorekeeping.

 

[Lightning]

On a ground ball to F8, I would score it a hit for the batter, and mark the other base-runner out at the appropriate base, noting the players involved (8-6, for example). Scoring it an FC takes away a hit from the batter. Unless the fielder who first gets the ball has a pretty routine chance to get the batter out, it's not an FC.

This is my understanding. I could be wrong.

See, that's not my understanding at all. I've always been taught that if a runner is forced out, the batter can't be credited with a hit. It doesn't matter if there would have been a hit if there had been no base runner. For a hit, everyone who needs to advance must be able to advance.

I found a reference from the iScore forums from 2011 about the ASA rules (and other orgs were similar):

Rule 11 Scoring
...
Section 3. A BASE HIT shall not be scored:
A. When a runner is forced out on a batted ball or would have been forced out except for a fielding error.
B. When a player fielding a batted ball retires a preceding runner with ordinary effort.
C. When a fielder fails in an attempt to retire a preceding runner and, in the scorer’s judgment, the batter-runner could have been retired at first base.
D. When a batter reaches first base safely as a result of a preceding runner being called out for interfering with a batted or thrown ball, or with adefensive player.

So force out = FC.

 

[Strike2]

On a ground ball to F8, I would score it a hit for the batter, and mark the other base-runner out at the appropriate base, noting the players involved (8-6, for example). Scoring it an FC takes away a hit from the batter. Unless the fielder who first gets the ball has a pretty routine chance to get the batter out, it's not an FC.

This is my understanding. I could be wrong.

I would score a hit ball reaching the OF as you describe as a "base hit" for my internal stat-keeping, but from a by-the-book scorekeeping standpoint, I'd be wrong.

A FC is the correct entry any time a baserunner is put out on a force play on a batted ball. Where the ball goes is not relevant.

 

[Eric F]

Thanks, guys. I like being accurate. The correction to my understanding is appreciated.

 

[mmeece]

While some of the examples may be correct on a technicality (I would stress MAY, not sure I agree and I have seen official scoring at a high level done differently), if the scoring is done for purposes of internal stats I would use common sense. You know what a hit looks like. I hate to see a bunt/slap scored a FC when the defense made a desperate attempt at another base because they knew they had little to no chance at 1st.

 

[CoachJD]

While some of the examples may be correct on a technicality (I would stress MAY, not sure I agree and I have seen official scoring at a high level done differently), if the scoring is done for purposes of internal stats I would use common sense. You know what a hit looks like. I hate to see a bunt/slap scored a FC when the defense made a desperate attempt at another base because they knew they had little to no chance at 1st.

If your goal is accurate record keeping, you should adhere to the scoring guidelines. If you're generating scouting reports for your players, you may do something different.

That said, your last sentence sounds like it should be a hit. A "desperate attempt at another base" sounds to me like A) they couldn't get the batter-runner and B) the runner they tried to get was safe. That should be scored a hit. There is some subjectivity in deciding whether the batter-runner would have been safe, but if we're assuming it's obvious she would be, that's not a fielder's choice.

Anyway, I'd like to know where you've seen the scoring done differently. There are rules for how these plays should be scored.

 

[cuzmail]

As soon as she dove for the ball I would have scored it hit. If it was fielded cleanly and thrown to second with a fast runner then it would be a FC


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??? Even with a late movement or movement in the wrong way at first? Simply diving indicates a hit?

 

[TopCatDad]

??? Even with a late movement or movement in the wrong way at first? Simply diving indicates a hit?

No. With the info givin it is.


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