Runs Allowed in USSSA

[Rick M]

I get the argument that RA discourages teams from using all of their pitchers, but run differential would create other problems. In a 10 or 12 team field, you couldn’t rely on an eight-run cap. The more that goes up, the greater the likelihood of good teams really pouring it on the inferior ones. That’s not really good for anyone.

As others have said, you need to forget about that number one seed, it’s not even a good thing for a young team that focuses on development. Would you rather show up on Sunday and pound the #12 team or play a good game against #5 and work through the next two levels?


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[JLI2010]

I am in your area... and at the same tournament (though I didn't umpire this age group last weekend). Good little team and a long time good org north of WPB.

I remember when it was run differential first not long ago - even when they changed it to capped. 20-0 games. Teams not run ruling teams because they won 2-0 first game and needed 18 runs to get their differential up. Run ruled games affecting differential in some late-inning. Teams intentionally not scoring to affect their seeding or even letting a team score so they got a better seeeding. Arguments about who knows what some idiot wanted to argue about.

Runs Against has proven to be the best 'first' tiebreaker. Easy, simple and stops people running up scores. Having to stop a runner scoring from third against a bad team with your #3 pitcher and none of your basket starters in their best positions isn't the worst thing your team should be doing development wise.

This isn't a 'rule' or 'policy' issue for you - it is a head coach issue. #1 seed is just not that important.

The only 'win' goal of pool play is to look at the schedule and decide which game(s) you absolutely need to win to not play at 8am Bracket Day and/or get a bye if the bracket offers one.

Apart from that it needs to be play and develop everyone. You should be doing things like:

1. If you have 3 pitchers they get a game each. And a long leash.
2. Your bench plays more than bracket day - starters don't play every inning in the same spot and spend time on the bench.
3. Move girls around. If you have a bench, you should NEVER send the exact field out every inning
4. Change your batting lineups every game. If you are good enough - and I know your team is - just start the next game with who was up last game.

And BTW, when you DO develop the depth; then the #1/#2 seed comes easier as the team is better. And you will win more on Sunday - which frankly is going to be necessary because there are some strength in that age division across the state with Inferno, Stars, Explosion, FC and several other teams

Thank you for putting thought into this and your detailed response!!

 

[Strike2]

The only 'win' goal of pool play is to look at the schedule and decide which game(s) you absolutely need to win to not play at 8am Bracket Day and/or get a bye if the bracket offers one.

The 8am start more than the bye...unless it's 100 degrees and you're short on catchers.

 

[_MIA_]

The 8am start more than the bye...unless it's 100 degrees and you're short on catchers.

I've had some of my best naps in the car for 8 am games..I think I once slept through 2 games

 

[JLI2010]

We talked about the tiebreaker as a team on Sunday (our first tournament is next weekend). Our HC (I'm AC) had a different perspective on RA vs. RF - with RA (Runs Against), it's more in your control. Runs For (or differential) can sometimes be a crap-shoot - winning 12-0 or 17-5 may be more from the 15 walks issued than from your teams bats. At least with RA, while it could encourage teams to leave their dominant pitcher in longer than needed, it's a slightly better reflection of the overall teams ability to play defense. (Assuming a 10U team isn't using the same pitcher for both pool games?)

We're an 11U team still dealing with almost the same dilemma. Lots of posts here as you mentioned about bracket play not mattering all that much, but I suspect most of those come from strong teams, playing in multiple-bracket (silver / gold / etc) tournaments. In our tournaments, there's a big difference b/w the 1-2 seed and bottom seeds. The top seeds (to USSSA's credit) are teams that are ready to get bumped up to B. Upsets happen, but very rare.

Our first year, we were a 10U RAS (Rec/All-Star). Last year a 10C. This year 11C, with dreams of moving to B. One of our challenges is that C teams only play 2 pool games. Limited games place A LOT more emphasis on the tiebreakers. We're that typical team that has a bad habit of playing down to the level of the competition, and have had more "one and done" Sunday's than any other result, even with a high seed. With only 2 pool games, we don't have the luxury of sitting our strongest players for extended periods of time with the expectation that they'll be playing in multiple games on Sunday. It's a crappy "Catch-22" - we're trying to win on Sat so we have a better seed and better chance at playing more games on Sunday, but even if we manage to win the first bracket game, there's now the pressure to only play / bat the best 9/10 to give us a chance to keep advancing - so our bench players remain our bench players, with maybe some courtesy runner opportunities.

(I better post this - there's already been about 20 posts since I started, and I think Marriard just summed it up in 500 fewer words!)

Thank you!

 

[Cougars]

I think in a perfect world, where teams are relatively even, and there aren't coaches trying to run up the score, I would prefer differential. I'd prefer giving a higher seed to a team that wins 7-2 than 2-1. However, it's not something I'm going to lose any sleep over.

 

[Rick M]

You should be doing things like:

1. If you have 3 pitchers they get a game each. And a long leash.
2. Your bench plays more than bracket day - starters don't play every inning in the same spot and spend time on the bench.
3. Move girls around. If you have a bench, you should NEVER send the exact field out every inning
4. Change your batting lineups every game. If you are good enough - and I know your team is - just start the next game with who was up last game.

Someone needs to laminate this and hand it to every coach in America. Coaches should have to sign off on it as a condition of playing in a tournament.


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[marriard]

This isn't a 'rule' or 'policy' issue for you - it is a coaching staff issue. #1 seed is just not that important.

The only 'win' goal of pool play is to look at the schedule and decide which game(s) you absolutely need to win to not play at 8am Bracket Day and/or get a bye if the bracket offers one.

Going to add one more thing.

Saturday is WAY more fun and less stressful when you change to this philosophy.

 

[JLI2010]

Going to add one more thing.

Saturday is WAY more fun and less stressful when you change to this philosophy.

We will get there! without the rule change. All the best.

 

[Lobster Birch]

Just freaking put your pitcher in the game and don't worry about it.

I've had some of my best naps in the car for 8 am games..I think I once slept through 2 games

I was trying to take a good pregame nap in my car the other week, but the woman in the passenger side of the car parked next to me flung her door open and hit my car! There was no napping after that.