Runner on 2nd signaling pitch location to batter

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Apr 20, 2018
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SoCal
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To me it doesn't hold water that the coach, from the dugout will have a better view of what is actually happening. Their pitch calling is based upon a bad view of if the pitch was what they called and if it was where it was supposed to be. Every time the catcher gets asked, where the ball came in because the pitch calling wasn't the expected result, I just have to laugh.
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I laugh too! Pitch was just outside, maybe on the black. Had the coach yelled to my DD, "Ask the ump where that missed". She turned her head to the ump and asked, "Where did that miss?" Ump took his foot and drew a line about half way into the opposite batters box. Hilarious!
Come on coach. Teach the catchers how to call pitches.
 
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inumpire

Observer, but has an opinion
Oct 31, 2014
277
43
Sign stealing on the field is part of the game. Catcher needs to to go to a 2nd or third sign for different pitches & set up for location just before the pitch is thrown. We did this all the time in baseball & Men’s Major Fastpitch Softball
Been going on for years. It is part of the game. As an umpire when I am on the bases, I try to figure out the signs. I want to know when a runner is going to steal, or the catcher will try to pick a runner off. Helps you stay focused.
 
Aug 30, 2015
286
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I'm cool with sign stealing. Never had a problem.

I have a BIG problem, though, when dad or grandpa is doing it from the bleachers.
 
Feb 20, 2019
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Someone else already said it, but don't let the runner get to second and your problem is solved. Seriously though...this is part of the game IMO. It's completely different from someone who's not playing the game to steal signs (like a parent standing in the outfield with binoculars and a two-way radio).

We did it (and had it done to us) in high school baseball. There's nothing wrong or bush league about it. Would you expect a football player to not tell his teammates if he recognized a blitz package?

Our HS SS once told an opposing base runner who stole 2B that the pitch was fouled off. The base runner thanked the SS and started trotting back to 1B. The catcher not knowing what was going on, threw the ball back to 1B and the 1B tagged the runner out. Now, I thought that was bush league/poor sportsmanship, but the umpire didn't have a problem with it and neither did our coach.
 
Jul 31, 2019
495
43
I agree for younger girls, but I am done telling the older girls what their limits are.
I can't tell a girl, congratulations on graduating HS with your associates, I just wish you were smart enough to call pitches.
My all time favorite catcher just passed on the second half of her Senior year to go D1 to a top ten school. The difference between her and most young women is that she never believed in the limits that coaches tried to place on her.
We have local girls that catch entire tournaments, not because they have to but because they are a beast behind the plate. I think that is extreme, but these girls are athletes. My own DD struggled with a high school conditioning test because while running she couldn't get and keep her heart rate up into the requested range. She may have grown up all elbows and knees her entire life while being razor thin, but she is stronger and faster than most of her classmates.

To me it doesn't hold water that the coach, from the dugout will have a better view of what is actually happening. Their pitch calling is based upon a bad view of if the pitch was what they called and if it was where it was supposed to be. Every time the catcher gets asked, where the ball came in because the pitch calling wasn't the expected result, I just have to laugh.

But I guess it depends upon what you are trying to accomplish. The argument seems to be that the coach can win more games because they are capable of controlling the game, and the players are not. I contend that a well taught player will beat that coach.
I am in no way telling a catcher she has limits, I’m saying this is a team game and there are resources that are more effective calling a game. Pitcher/catcher MUST. Be very involved, but ultimately, a coach takes on the responsibility. I would also add that there are catchers that can handle it, but it’s a small percentage. In the whole scheme if this at EVERY level, catchers do not call their own games, and it’s for a reason.
 
Feb 18, 2014
348
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I am in no way telling a catcher she has limits, I’m saying this is a team game and there are resources that are more effective calling a game. Pitcher/catcher MUST. Be very involved, but ultimately, a coach takes on the responsibility. I would also add that there are catchers that can handle it, but it’s a small percentage. In the whole scheme if this at EVERY level, catchers do not call their own games, and it’s for a reason.
Which is it, do they not have limits or is there a small percentage of girls that can do it? Or can they not do it because they are never trained or trusted to do so?

The reason catchers to not call their games is because the coach decides that he/she can do a better job. That they have more information and experience, so this part of the game should be micromanaged.

As has been pointed out, the coach calls off of what they think is happening, judging the pitch from a bad vantage point and believing that a swing will be the same from the last or what is on the tracking methods. That an at bat it math, x pitch plus y swing will equal z result. I see a lot of "math" at every level that seems to go over the fence.

I disagree. No matter what you call it is still up to the girls to deliver and they deserve more than to be micromanaged.
 
Jul 31, 2019
495
43
Which is it, do they not have limits or is there a small percentage of girls that can do it? Or can they not do it because they are never trained or trusted to do so?

The reason catchers to not call their games is because the coach decides that he/she can do a better job. That they have more information and experience, so this part of the game should be micromanaged.

As has been pointed out, the coach calls off of what they think is happening, judging the pitch from a bad vantage point and believing that a swing will be the same from the last or what is on the tracking methods. That an at bat it math, x pitch plus y swing will equal z result. I see a lot of "math" at every level that seems to go over the fence.

I disagree. No matter what you call it is still up to the girls to deliver and they deserve more than to be micromanaged.
I don't believe it's micromanaging at all. I guess my simple question is if catchers should call their own games, why doesn't it happen? Why don't college catchers or MLB catchers call their own games? There are exceptions but they are far and few. Are you saying that coaches call pitches based on egos? and not proven results? Catchers don't "deserve" anything, they play one of nine positions on the field, that coaches manage. What's next, the batter calling out the offensive game?
 
Jun 8, 2016
16,118
113
Why don't college catchers or MLB catchers call their own games?
? For the most part MLB catchers (or really pitchers and catchers since the pitcher has the final say) do call their own games. That said, before the game the coaches do sit down and go over the scouting reports with the battery so it isn't like they are flying "blind".
 
Feb 18, 2014
348
28
I don't believe it's micromanaging at all. I guess my simple question is if catchers should call their own games, why doesn't it happen? Why don't college catchers or MLB catchers call their own games? There are exceptions but they are far and few. Are you saying that coaches call pitches based on egos? and not proven results? Catchers don't "deserve" anything, they play one of nine positions on the field, that coaches manage. What's next, the batter calling out the offensive game?
So at 10u, when the coach is "managing" when to run, where to throw the ball, to cover bases, if it's a third dropped strike, to run through first base, cover home, and everything else that the coach "manages" that is 10u ball, how much of that continues through high school? Just the fact that the girls are not the most competent to call pitches.

Why doesn't it happen, because pitchers aren't trained why pitches are thrown certain locations, because catchers aren't trained to read a batters swing. Because the coach believe they can do it better, because they aren't encouraged to grow, trusted to do it.... pick your reason why it doesn't happen.

I am seeing "proven results" in young women that are capable and strong and do arguably a better job that what comes off of the bucket. And isn't that the goal, growth in these young ladies? Not a demonstration of the coaches prowess? I am so glad we have found a team that allows the players to play in games and the coaches to instruct in practice.
 
Jul 31, 2019
495
43
For whatever it's worth, I asked the college coaches at this year's advanced NFCA Coaches Clinic if their catchers call games. One burst out laughing, one said no, and the other "hell no".
 

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