Runner on 2nd signaling pitch location to batter

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Aug 1, 2019
195
43
South Carolina
I’ve seen this happen so often at so many levels, I couldn’t begin to guess the number of incidents. And not once did a defensive coach or player complain. Nor did I ever see a form of retaliation such as a pitch high and tight. They just played right through it.

The only ones I ever see get uptight about it are the occasional parents who make comments like “it’s cheating” or “bush league”. If it was cheating, sanctions would have rules outlawing it. And if it was bush league, why aren’t players retaliating? Because they don’t think it is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Jun 8, 2016
16,118
113
There is a reason why every other game you watch in MLB that you see the catcher go to talk to the pitcher with a man on second base......Tapping a knee for location is just silly
 

Cannonball

Ex "Expert"
Feb 25, 2009
4,855
113
I've posted this before so forgive me for repeating it. I used to get to do some stuff with the ST. Louis Cardinals. In talking to Mike Matheny one time, he mentioned that he would use his facemask holes to indicated to the pitcher and infielders that he was changing signals and what set of signals he was using. In doing that, he also said that they used, "glove signs" as one option. IOWs, where he placed his glove was the pitch and how he began his setup told the pitcher location. We used those in HS and I think successfully. I would have the catcher give one sign to let the runner signal in what that pitch was but it was never the real pitch.
 

NBECoach

Learning everyday
Aug 9, 2018
408
63
We use the number system for both the pitch and location. We change as necessary. Catcher does not move until the pitcher has started her motion

The pitcher targets the knees of the shin guards until the catcher sets up.
 
Jul 14, 2018
982
93
I think the whole sign-stealing thing is way overblown. In MLB, they have so much data that every hitter knows what's coming, they know what the pitcher throws and they know what the book is on themselves, so they have a pretty good idea of how opponents are going to attack them.

In our more humble world of travel and HS softball, there isn't that kind of information but I'm still dubious about the value of stealing signs. If a hitter if busy watching the runner on 2B, they're not paying enough attention to the pitcher. And all it takes is one bad sign -- telling the hitter that the ball will be outside and then it comes inside -- and the hitter is going to think, "screw this, I'm ignoring that runner and just doing my thing." Not to mention, as sluggers likes to point out often, this all assumes that the pitcher can actually hit the location being called.

So why do they do it? The Astros situation is a perfect example. Beltran was a veteran player who only got into 130 games and almost all of them at DH. The guy was bored, and started doing something that made him feel like he was contributing. Same goes for all those bench players in softball -- make them feel like they're a part of the game even when they're riding the bench.
 

TMD

Feb 18, 2016
433
43
Maybe I'm just soft and not competitive enough (I've been accused of worse), but I don't like it. I know it's not cheating (unless in LL?) and there are certainly way more "bush league"-y actions than this, but I don't like it when a batter is getting active assistance at the time of the pitch. This is different than observing a pitcher's actions to pick up a tell, or figuring out a pitch by repeated use of the same numbering scheme, and then using that knowledge yourself when at the plate. But having a third party tip you off? Sorry, just not a fan. That said, it's not something I would ever make a stink about during a game, but would discuss strategies to counter it.

Frankly, I wonder how much of a difference it actually makes in realtime. These kinds signals often come as the pitcher is starting their motion, so can distract the batter from their focus as much as (more than?) help them.
 

radness

Possibilities & Opportunities!
Dec 13, 2019
7,270
113
:)
If the hitter can read the pitchers throwing mechanics
what then....

Guess its time to have
MORE LIVE PITCHING
at practices so batters can
LEARN TO BE BETTER HITTERS ;)


Skills vs. Strategy
Creates Competition!

( Strategy hmmmmm
create a better way to call pitches and give signs and signals. And or create develop better ways to steal them. Hmmm Strategy)
Conundrum
 
Last edited:
Jul 16, 2008
1,520
48
Oregon
I think the whole sign-stealing thing is way overblown. In MLB, they have so much data that every hitter knows what's coming, they know what the pitcher throws and they know what the book is on themselves, so they have a pretty good idea of how opponents are going to attack them.

In our more humble world of travel and HS softball, there isn't that kind of information but I'm still dubious about the value of stealing signs. If a hitter if busy watching the runner on 2B, they're not paying enough attention to the pitcher. And all it takes is one bad sign -- telling the hitter that the ball will be outside and then it comes inside -- and the hitter is going to think, "screw this, I'm ignoring that runner and just doing my thing." Not to mention, as sluggers likes to point out often, this all assumes that the pitcher can actually hit the location being called.

So why do they do it? The Astros situation is a perfect example. Beltran was a veteran player who only got into 130 games and almost all of them at DH. The guy was bored, and started doing something that made him feel like he was contributing. Same goes for all those bench players in softball -- make them feel like they're a part of the game even when they're riding the bench.


Well to be honest if that was true... then why the drastic changes in BA when the Astros were at Home vs on the Road? You cannot tell me at the MLB level, knowing a breaking pitch is coming 100% isn't an advantage
 
May 6, 2015
2,397
113
use of eyes and brain to try and determine what your opponent is going to do is part of the game. using elecronics is not, and is and should be illegal in all sanctions.

BTW, I think the purpose of the LL rule is get coaches to focus on coaching up their players, rather than trying to decode what other team is doing.
 
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