Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch

Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.

Register Log in

Runner hit in face on double play attempt. Correct call?

MTR

Jun 22, 2008
3,436
48
That is how I was taught in baseball, the runner will get out of way.

Not trying to hurt anyone.
What do you think happens to a runner when s/he is hit by a thrown ball?
 
Last edited:
Jul 5, 2016
199
16
Any coach who teaches their players to act in a way that will cause injury to another player really should face criminal charges. Obviously softball has rough moments even in the course of a clean game and there is no doubt that a team will exact retribution for dirty play by the opposing team, but for coach to teach this is beyond the pale.
 
Jul 24, 2013
19
1
I think any coach who does not teach their baserunners to avoid the throw is seriously at fault. Runners should either slide or veer out of the way of the throw. Most times, the SS or 2nd baseman is looking past the runner to the first baseman. Even though the baserunner is in their line of sight, the fielder doesn't see (or notice) the runner. It is like a pitcher who doesn't see the hitter even though she is standing in the batter's box. It is all about what the fielder (or pitcher) is focusing on. They should be focusing on their target and not the baserunner.
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,380
63
I think any coach who does not teach their baserunners to avoid the throw is seriously at fault. Runners should either slide or veer out of the way of the throw. Most times, the SS or 2nd baseman is looking past the runner to the first baseman. Even though the baserunner is in their line of sight, the fielder doesn't see (or notice) the runner. It is like a pitcher who doesn't see the hitter even though she is standing in the batter's box. It is all about what the fielder (or pitcher) is focusing on. They should be focusing on their target and not the baserunner.
There is never a requirement to slide at any time required by the rules. The only time the rules even mention sliding is when a fielder is in possession of the ball and waiting to make a tag, in that case the runner "may slide" in order to not be called out for crashing the fielder. You want to runner to veer off, well, if the runner does veer off in attempt to get out of the way and ends up getting in the way do you still want them called for interference? You cant have it both ways, you cant tell the runner they must slide or must veer off and then still call them for interference if they get in the way. Running in the base path is exactly where the runner is suppose to be and the defense needs to work around that. Interference requires some act to have interfered and simply running the bases is not an act of interference.

You also need to remember the runner is not out until the umpire declares them out. You would be requiring the runner to make an assumption they are out and react before they umpire has made any call. There could be any number of reasons the runner may not actually be out, the fielder may have missed touching the base, they may have bobbled the ball and never controlled it etc. In the original video posted the umpire is just barely raising the fist for the out call when the ball impacts the runner. There simply was no time for the runner to veer off prior to being called out and as already stated no rule requires a runner to slide. NCAA has come out with an oddball interpretation of the rule which I wont even get into because NCAA has several odd ball rulings and rules that do not interchange with any other rule set.
 
Jul 24, 2013
19
1
I am not talking about the runner being out or safe or what the rules are concerning sliding into a base. I am strictly talking about player safety. If you want your runner to avoid injury, the runner should avoid being hit by the throw. Having your runner going into 2nd base standing up on a double play attempt is a recipe for disaster. Any coach who teaches his/her runners to go into 2nd base standing up on a double play does not have the safety of the players in mind. On a close play, sliding will get the runner there the quickest. If the runner isn't close to 2nd, simply veer off a bit to avoid the throw and then keep going to 2nd. Like Comp says, the umpire will call the runner out if there is an out on the play. Like I said in my previous post, there is a good chance the player throwing the ball may not even see the runner because the thrower is focusing on her target, the first baseman.
 
Jun 1, 2013
840
18
Any coach who teaches their players to act in a way that will cause injury to another player really should face criminal charges. Obviously softball has rough moments even in the course of a clean game and there is no doubt that a team will exact retribution for dirty play by the opposing team, but for coach to teach this is beyond the pale.
Oh my, I teach my batters to hit the down the middle pitch right back to the pitcher. Since a batted ball is much faster than a thrown ball, you would probably have me for attempted murder! Here is what you don't get, for certain actions there are and will be certain reactions. If the young lady's coach would have instructed her properly on how to break up a double play she wouldn't have gotten hit. I am pretty certain she went in standing up to cause a disruption in the play. If her Coach has instructed her properly she would know there is a high likelyhood she will get hit. It is not fielder's fault because she turned the double play as she would have if there wasn't a player there. Just ask these umps what would have happened if the SS didn't throw the ball or attempt to throw the ball. Nothing. No call except runner out on 2nd and people thinking the runner was dirty. Yes, dirty. She came into a base standing up with the intention of breaking up a double play the non traditional way. No slide rule, neither technically at fault but in the spirit and traditions of the game the runner is at fault here. Maybe she did it on purpose or maybe she was just too lazy to get down, pretty sure next time she will slide.
 
Last edited:
Jul 5, 2016
199
16
Oh my, I teach my batters to hit the down the middle pitch right back to the pitcher. Since a batted ball is much faster than a thrown ball, you would probably have me for attempted murder! Here is what you don't get, for certain actions there are and will be certain reactions. If the young lady's coach would have instructed her properly on how to break up a double play she wouldn't have gotten hit. I am pretty certain she went in standing up to cause a disruption in the play. If her Coach has instructed her properly she would know there is a high likelyhood she will get hit. It is not fielder's fault because she turned the double play as she would have if there wasn't a player there. Just ask these umps what would have happened if the SS didn't throw the ball or attempt to throw the ball. Nothing. No call except runner out on 2nd and people thinking the runner was dirty. Yes, dirty. She came into a base standing up with the intention of breaking up a double play the non traditional way. No slide rule, neither technically at fault but in the spirit and traditions of the game the runner is at fault here.
No, that's not what I meant. In an earlier post, somebody said he would tell his player to throw at the runner's head. That's a bit different from a SS who is thinking only of the double-play and ends up hitting the runner while trying to throw to first. This is how the Alabama SS hit her own 2nd baseman - it was a fast moving play and the SS was focused on the throw to 1st when the 2nd baseman got in the way.
 
Jun 1, 2013
840
18
No, that's not what I meant. In an earlier post, somebody said he would tell his player to throw at the runner's head. That's a bit different from a SS who is thinking only of the double-play and ends up hitting the runner while trying to throw to first. This is how the Alabama SS hit her own 2nd baseman - it was a fast moving play and the SS was focused on the throw to 1st when the 2nd baseman got in the way.
I guess it goes to intent, I tell my catcher to throw at my pitchers head when she throws to second. Pitcher knows she better move cause it is coming fast. I am definitely not trying to hurt my pitcher but I use her head as a target. (Pitcher is not thrilled by this)
Devils advocate with this, If a runner is in the throwing lane, a hard ball thrown from second at her head hits the mark at 1st. No intention to hurt anyone, it's the reference point when target is obscured. Also, the most protected part of the runner is the head so one could argue he is keeping the runner safe and completing the play.
 
Jul 5, 2016
199
16
I guess it goes to intent, I tell my catcher to throw at my pitchers head when she throws to second. Pitcher knows she better move cause it is coming fast. I am definitely not trying to hurt my pitcher but I use her head as a target. (Pitcher is not thrilled by this)
Devils advocate with this, If a runner is in the throwing lane, a hard ball thrown from second at her head hits the mark at 1st. No intention to hurt anyone, it's the reference point when target is obscured. Also, the most protected part of the runner is the head so one could argue he is keeping the runner safe and completing the play.
Yes - I was just going to say that - it goes to intent.
 

MTR

Jun 22, 2008
3,436
48
I think any coach who does not teach their baserunners to avoid the throw is seriously at fault. Runners should either slide or veer out of the way of the throw. Most times, the SS or 2nd baseman is looking past the runner to the first baseman. Even though the baserunner is in their line of sight, the fielder doesn't see (or notice) the runner. It is like a pitcher who doesn't see the hitter even though she is standing in the batter's box. It is all about what the fielder (or pitcher) is focusing on. They should be focusing on their target and not the baserunner.
I think that any coach who does not teach their players how to turn a double play properly shouldn't be teaching kids. The runner has every right to advance toward the base to which they must reach to avoid being retired. Not only do runners not disappear when the out is executed, in many cases they do not hear the umpire vocalize the out and when they do, that vocalization is not simultaneous with the application of the out.

You would know that if you weren't out in left field
 
Top