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rounding 1st on a walk

MTR

Jun 22, 2008
3,433
48
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't mind the LBR. Sure, it could be tweaked to make it less confusing and it would be nice if the rule was the same across the sanctioning bodies. Since we don't allow leads in our sport, we need something to get the runner back to the base in a way that doesn't unnecessarily delay the game.

What changes would you implement to make the rule better? Or, what rule would you replace it with?
Just get rid of it, it is not necessary. Just kill the ball when all play is obviously done and move on. It is done thousands of times a day in all non-FP games without incident. The only reason the LBR exists is to satisfy a belief in the myth that it is a "live ball" game.
 
Mar 9, 2015
319
18
It has already been posted in several spots throughout this thread. If the pitcher has the ball in the circle when the batter/runner who has overrun 1st base turns and moves back toward 1st base, they are committed to 1st and would be in violation of the lookback rule and are out. If the ball is not in the circle with the pitcher when the turn around and start back, they are still free to break for 2nd.

Now, if what you have seen is in a college game, then the rule is different. A batter/runner who has overrun 1st can still break for 2nd any time up until they return and touch 1st base.
Thanks for the info!
 
Mar 14, 2017
236
18
Michigan
Just get rid of it, it is not necessary. Just kill the ball when all play is obviously done and move on. It is done thousands of times a day in all non-FP games without incident. The only reason the LBR exists is to satisfy a belief in the myth that it is a "live ball" game.
I've always disagreed with your stance on this, but you have me intrigued.

So if a girl were to round first and stand there like a dumbass 3 steps off the base with the ball in the circle, are you saying you would kill the play, put her on first and get ready for the next batter?
 

MTR

Jun 22, 2008
3,433
48
I've always disagreed with your stance on this, but you have me intrigued.

So if a girl were to round first and stand there like a dumbass 3 steps off the base with the ball in the circle, are you saying you would kill the play, put her on first and get ready for the next batter?
Yep. why not? If the defense isn't going to make a play, just kill it and move on. It is nothing new, nor that difficult to determine when the play is over. Once the ball is in the circle, what else is supposed to happen? Absolutely, nothing, so why jerk around with an unnecessary rule that seems to complicate more than resolve any issues.

Like I said, this is done thousands of times every day without issue. It also allows umpires to quickly move into position instead of one standing there watching the pitcher and runners and then moving into position him/herself after his/her partner is set.
 
Jun 6, 2016
920
43
Chicago
I've always disagreed with your stance on this, but you have me intrigued.

So if a girl were to round first and stand there like a dumbass 3 steps off the base with the ball in the circle, are you saying you would kill the play, put her on first and get ready for the next batter?
I was thinking about this, and MTR has me pretty well convinced.

If the pitcher has the ball in the circle, once all runners have stopped moving (or maybe stopped forward movement; I'd have to think it through some to figure out the best language to use), the ball is dead and runners must return to their previous base. Could include a clause about how any retreating runners cannot change course unless the pitcher/defense attempts to make a play.

Removing the automatic out would eliminate all the issues. At worst you'd have a coach who argues the umpire shouldn't have called time/dead ball when his player, 57 feet from the next base with the pitcher ready to pitch, was definitely going to advance. Nobody's going to listen to that kind of argument.
 
May 17, 2012
1,958
48
I am fine with MTR's solution or at least change "out" to "warning" for the first offense for that base runner.

The punishment doesn't fit the crime.
 

Strike2

Allergic to BS
Nov 14, 2014
770
43
As usual, I've learned something from Comp and MTR.

I think the confusion among coaches and some umpires may rest with the difference between the words "overrun" and the "round", and the effect of LBR on each. I wasn't looking at it correctly until reading this thread.

ASA/USA Supp Rule 34F makes it very clear that a walk is the same as a batted ball for the batter-runner. Although the USSSA rules on LBR appear the same, the ASA/USA rules are a bit clearer because of that.

MTR's idea to kill LBR and call dead ball when action stops would match what happens in slow-pitch, which wouldn't bother me at all.
 
Oct 11, 2018
38
8
It shouldn't be called but it will be by a lot of umpires. You can protest, but unless you want to waste a protest on something that isn't really worth it I would just have them stop.
getting 2 girls called out by bad umpiring is certainly the right place to protest. Need to protest on the 1st one.

As others said, there is no difference on rounding rule for hit or walk.

USA softball Rule 8.6.T.3.C.1: A batter-runner who rounds first base towards second base may stop once, but then must immediately non-stop return to first base or attempt to advance non-stop to second base. [no distinction between wlak or hit; they are both batter-runners.] This is part of the Look-Back rule.
 
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