Coach-n-Dad
Crazy Daddy
- Oct 31, 2008
- 1,008
- 0
AND - if my DD/pitcher gets injured by use of YOUR rolled bat, be prepared to deal with MY lawyer.
'Nuff said
rolled bats??
- Thread starter kboy
- Start date
Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch
Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.
AND - if my DD/pitcher gets injured by use of YOUR rolled bat, be prepared to deal with MY lawyer.
'Nuff said
FP softball is mostly $2 swings with expensive bats. I'd suggest people focus less on what's the best bat or how to make a good bat springier than it's supposed to be and focus more on learning how to swing that stick more efficiently. It' better than it was ten years ago but it's still poor.
Cannonball
Ex "Expert"
- Feb 25, 2009
- 4,881
- 113
Rob,
I live in Madison County Illinois. It is the lawsuit capital of the United States. That's a fact and not an exaggeration. Should anyone happen to sneeze around here, there is a lawsuit. (Potential spreading of a pandemic.
)
I've looked this afternoon for the link to the test results of rolling versus break in over duration. If anyone else remembers the study, please provide the link. The results demonstrated that the consistency of the "stretching of the fiber" in the composite was more consistent with rolling than with normal break in and so, made the bats hotter. You'd be hard to use a composite for that long of a time to get the same results. Again, this was debated a year ago and a link was provided. If anyone has the link...
With the expense of these bats, I'll just let my daughter hit the ball and wear the bat out. We're not on any quest to be the next Bustos. Oh, we are using a Synergy in it's second year. Two good years left with her playing 100 games a year. BTW, MarkH has seen my daughter's $2 swing. Still, she gets on base once in a while.
Darrell
I live in Madison County Illinois. It is the lawsuit capital of the United States. That's a fact and not an exaggeration. Should anyone happen to sneeze around here, there is a lawsuit. (Potential spreading of a pandemic.
) I've looked this afternoon for the link to the test results of rolling versus break in over duration. If anyone else remembers the study, please provide the link. The results demonstrated that the consistency of the "stretching of the fiber" in the composite was more consistent with rolling than with normal break in and so, made the bats hotter. You'd be hard to use a composite for that long of a time to get the same results. Again, this was debated a year ago and a link was provided. If anyone has the link...
With the expense of these bats, I'll just let my daughter hit the ball and wear the bat out. We're not on any quest to be the next Bustos. Oh, we are using a Synergy in it's second year. Two good years left with her playing 100 games a year. BTW, MarkH has seen my daughter's $2 swing. Still, she gets on base once in a while.
Darrell
Cannonball
Ex "Expert"
- Feb 25, 2009
- 4,881
- 113
Coach-n-Dad, what people don't realize is that on any given pitch, our girls can seriously be hurt. My daughter does ok in the circle. Her high school record now is 19-4 in the circle starting both her freshman and sophomore years for the varsity. (We have 2 pitchers.) She has been hit in the face twice and in the ribs once. This year she pitched against schools that were more than twice our size with girls twice as big. Heck, my daughter is a physical specimine and she is small compared to them. My dd is 5'10" tall and 155 pounds of muscle. Still one shot at any time that hits her in the heart and we're in big trouble. In a classless jesture I'd like to suggest that anyone advocating the use of rolled bats should have to have their daughter's in the circle against ... However, I would never wish that.
FJRGerry
Abby's Dad
I've never heard of the process of rolling a bat until reading this post but it sounds questionable, at best, to me. Since this is my daughter's first year of travel ball (12U) I bought her a Vendetta and we broke it in by simply using it - alot. She also pitches and wears a gameface and an evoshield for chest & liver protection - a very worthwhile investment I think. She hasn't been hit - yet - but I know the chance goes up as she ages and faces stronger batters.
redhotcoach
Out on good behavior
- May 8, 2009
- 4,705
- 38
Once again I am not defending the rolling of bats, I in my opionion I think all composites are too hot! That being said if a girl has a rolled bat and someone gets hurt IT IS NOT BECAUSE THE BAT HAS BEEN ROLLED! Every company advertising the service on the web says they will get 103mph out of a 98 mph unbroken in bat. Here is a thesis from a Washington State University student. He took 3 composite bats and shot balls from an air cannon per ASA standards, and after 500 hits on the bats the balls were coming off at.....ready.....102.5 mph! Both are pretty darn dangerous in mpo, but that .5 mph (the dif between a rolled and a BROKEN IN BAT, not a new bat like other studys here show) is not the difference between a bruise and slattering the whole team.
By how much might a typical bat improve with use? A recent Master's Thesis from the Washington State University studied the performance of composite slow-pitch softball bats and the performance gains through various ways a bat might be modified. Three bats that were broken-in naturally by hitting balls. First, the bats were performance tested brand new, right out of the wrapper, in accordance with the high-speed cannon test (ASTM F2219) used by the ASA to certify bats. Then each bat was used to hit ASA certified 0.44 COR 375lb softballs 500 times in an indoor batting cage. Balls were pitched slow-pitch style, and batters were amateurs. After 500 hits the bats were ball speed tested again. Then another 500 hits and another performance check, and so on until 2000 hits were accumulated.
The outcome shows that all three of the bats showed noticeable gains of 2.5-3.5 mph in batted-ball speed after the first 500 hits, followed by a slight decrease in performance after 1000 hits. The evidence seemed clear - the performance of a bat can get better by quite a bit after the bat has been broken in naturally by using it to hit balls. What does a 3.5mph increase in batted-ball speed mean in terms of performance? The difference between a softball launching off a bat at 98-mph and a softball launching at 102.5-mph is about 31 feet in distance traveled. That could very easily be the difference between a pop fly to the outfield and a homer.
This improvement after break in poses a dilema for associations with bat performance standards and certification. All three bats started out meeting the 98-mph criteria tested new. However, after 500 hits, all bats are now above the 98-mph line. The ASA requires that a bat pass the certification test at any time during its useful life. So, from the ASA viewpoint, these bats three bats are no longer legal bats after they have been broken in. This is largely why the ASA has moved to begin breaking in bats prior to sending them out for certification testing - and why very few composite bats are able to pass the 98-mph certification performance standard after being broken-in.
How Does a Composite Bat's Performance Get Better As it is Broken In?
By how much might a typical bat improve with use? A recent Master's Thesis from the Washington State University studied the performance of composite slow-pitch softball bats and the performance gains through various ways a bat might be modified. Three bats that were broken-in naturally by hitting balls. First, the bats were performance tested brand new, right out of the wrapper, in accordance with the high-speed cannon test (ASTM F2219) used by the ASA to certify bats. Then each bat was used to hit ASA certified 0.44 COR 375lb softballs 500 times in an indoor batting cage. Balls were pitched slow-pitch style, and batters were amateurs. After 500 hits the bats were ball speed tested again. Then another 500 hits and another performance check, and so on until 2000 hits were accumulated.
The outcome shows that all three of the bats showed noticeable gains of 2.5-3.5 mph in batted-ball speed after the first 500 hits, followed by a slight decrease in performance after 1000 hits. The evidence seemed clear - the performance of a bat can get better by quite a bit after the bat has been broken in naturally by using it to hit balls. What does a 3.5mph increase in batted-ball speed mean in terms of performance? The difference between a softball launching off a bat at 98-mph and a softball launching at 102.5-mph is about 31 feet in distance traveled. That could very easily be the difference between a pop fly to the outfield and a homer.
This improvement after break in poses a dilema for associations with bat performance standards and certification. All three bats started out meeting the 98-mph criteria tested new. However, after 500 hits, all bats are now above the 98-mph line. The ASA requires that a bat pass the certification test at any time during its useful life. So, from the ASA viewpoint, these bats three bats are no longer legal bats after they have been broken in. This is largely why the ASA has moved to begin breaking in bats prior to sending them out for certification testing - and why very few composite bats are able to pass the 98-mph certification performance standard after being broken-in.
How Does a Composite Bat's Performance Get Better As it is Broken In?
You going overboard with all the lawyer and lawsuit talk means nothing at all to me. You could get 1,000 lawyers and you would prove nothing. If you dont like it, dont let your daughter play, to make sure nothing can happen. Injury is a risk you take anytime to play in any sport. Rolling a composite bat does nothing more than one broke in from hitting balls. You simply choose to ignore that and continue with your lawyer rants. My god, if she used a wood bat and got a sliver, you would whine about that to. My kids all play in 3 sports, and we know there is a risk of injury in any of them. I think pitchers should have to keep all of their pitches under 40 mph to, because piutches going to fast have a chance to hit someone and cause them injury. Heck, if it hits someone in the head it could severly injure them or kill them. Tell me, if a girl got hit and injured from a wood or aluminum bat, would you cry foul there to? Because it could happen to.
Rob
Bat rolling is cheating. Breaking it in by hitting a lot might or might not do the same thing, but it wouldn't be cheating. Again, the great majority of the youth fp hitters I see have horrific swings. Spending money on hot bats and rolling them is absurd for most youth hitters. Mechanics, approach, patterning and the like would be the low hanging fruit by a long shot.
Rob,
I got my daughter her first composite bat 3 months ago (Demarini Phenix) and was thinking about having it rolled but decided against it. One of the main reasons was that rolling a bat, supposedly dramatically shortens the life of the bat. She doesn't like changing bats and hasn't in 3 years - so I'm hoping this bat will last her into high school and for what I paid I'm not getting her another one any time soon.
Originally I thought 500 to 1000 hits to breakin would take too long but it really didn't. I assume your daughter like mine would have to get use to a new bat, so we did alot of soft toss and tee (and occasionally the batting cage - which they say you should do with a composite). I think we did about 80-100 hits during each practice - it took couple weeks to break it in. Even without breakin I was shocked how fast the balls came off the bat.
So now my daughter has been using the composite for a few weeks now. Not sure if its the increased weight or being a composite or both but she can hit the fences now. Do I think rolling would help her get it over the fences? Probably but the real problem now I see is her swing needs to improve.
In the end I think you'll be happy enough with a composite bat that is not rolled.
Rob
I got my daughter her first composite bat 3 months ago (Demarini Phenix) and was thinking about having it rolled but decided against it. One of the main reasons was that rolling a bat, supposedly dramatically shortens the life of the bat. She doesn't like changing bats and hasn't in 3 years - so I'm hoping this bat will last her into high school and for what I paid I'm not getting her another one any time soon.
Originally I thought 500 to 1000 hits to breakin would take too long but it really didn't. I assume your daughter like mine would have to get use to a new bat, so we did alot of soft toss and tee (and occasionally the batting cage - which they say you should do with a composite). I think we did about 80-100 hits during each practice - it took couple weeks to break it in. Even without breakin I was shocked how fast the balls came off the bat.
So now my daughter has been using the composite for a few weeks now. Not sure if its the increased weight or being a composite or both but she can hit the fences now. Do I think rolling would help her get it over the fences? Probably but the real problem now I see is her swing needs to improve.
In the end I think you'll be happy enough with a composite bat that is not rolled.
Rob
