Riseball trajectories

[CoachJD]

Few women can t throw a pitch over 75MPH, so a women's riseball has a flat trajectory as it goes over the plate. For women, a riseball is easier to hit than a fastball *IF* the batter can predict when the riseball is thrown. The pitch is always at the top of the strike zone and the trajectory is flat, so the batter uses a "level swing". Lisa Fernandez murdered riseball pitching.

If I'm understanding all this, and I think I am, this tells me that there really is not such thing as a "riseball swing" (or a "softball swing," which is meant to combat the riseball) because, no matter the pitch, your swing is already supposed to be flatter/more level on higher pitches.

 

[djcarter1966]

Thing is every ball pitched (drop included) has to have an upward trajectory (launch angle in the paper) remember a ball is released just above the knee at 0 launch angle if the ball was going fast enough it would stay at that height but given speeds capable of being thrown and distance to the plate the ball will naturally drop. That natural drop would put the ball out of the strike zone.

You can actually try this get a pitching machine assuming legs are adjustable if not I've actually just removed the legs from the machine (make sure its stable); now place it 18-24 inches off the ground get a level and make it perpendicular to the ground put it at 65 mph and see where the ball goes...I'm guessing in the dirt. Speaking of which if you guys don't already adjust your pitching machines during BP so the release point is about that height you should start, getting use to the release point and angle is important....my two cents.

The reason everyone says the ball jumps (for a rise) is because every pitch that isn't a rise ball thrown in the zone has a natural path up and then down, a properly throw riseball goes up with initial launch angle but instead of following the natural path which is where the hitter swings it doesn't have that big drop its level if perfect as in the paper but most just drop less those few inches difference has the batter swinging under the ball or fouling it back, if the hitter knows its coming they can adjust in their eyes it is rising because they know they need to swing above where they always swing so it must be rising but it is mostly just dropping less.

 

[radness]

Uuuhhh ohhh now i'm thinking...
Wouldnt gravity help dropball.

Lets not forget a windy day in
Ya'alls math skills.

 

[Westwind]

Did anyone else who read the paper get REALLY hung up on the idea that they assume the release point is 1.5 or 1.8 feet off the ground for pitchers they assume are throwing 65 mph?

 

[radness]

If I'm understanding all this, and I think I am, this tells me that there really is not such thing as a "riseball swing" (or a "softball swing," which is meant to combat the riseball) because, no matter the pitch, your swing is already supposed to be flatter/more level on higher pitches.

Accept some people teach bat path swing down and up....
not me.

Level please!

 

[Westwind]

Thing is every ball pitched (drop included) has to have an upward trajectory (launch angle in the paper) remember a ball is released just above the knee at 0 launch angle if the ball was going fast enough it would stay at that height but given speeds capable of being thrown and distance to the plate the ball will naturally drop. That natural drop would put the ball out of the strike zone.

You can actually try this get a pitching machine assuming legs are adjustable if not I've actually just removed the legs from the machine (make sure its stable); now place it 18-24 inches off the ground get a level and make it perpendicular to the ground put it at 65 mph and see where the ball goes...I'm guessing in the dirt. Speaking of which if you guys don't already adjust your pitching machines during BP so the release point is about that height you should start, getting use to the release point and angle is important....my two cents.

The reason everyone says the ball jumps (for a rise) is because every pitch that isn't a rise ball thrown in the zone has a natural path up and then down, a properly throw riseball goes up with initial launch angle but instead of following the natural path which is where the hitter swings it doesn't have that big drop its level if perfect as in the paper but most just drop less those few inches difference has the batter swinging under the ball or fouling it back, if the hitter knows its coming they can adjust in their eyes it is rising because they know they need to swing above where they always swing so it must be rising but it is mostly just dropping less.

@djcarter1966 we were typing at the same time.

I just measured the release points of both my Jugs Jr. that I shortened the legs on per "Hitters" 10 year old advice as well as the height of the bottom wheel of a Hack Attack "I-Hack" which is 28" from the floor. I'm 6'1 and I cant contort to a 1.5' release point height without leaning way sideways.

If I'm understanding all this, and I think I am, this tells me that there really is not such thing as a "riseball swing" (or a "softball swing," which is meant to combat the riseball) because, no matter the pitch, your swing is already supposed to be flatter/more level on higher pitches.

I believe this to be correct. The question is: can the hitter anticipate/correctly predict a rise ball? AND/OR: how late can the hitter initiate the swing? The later she can initiate, the better chance to correctly read the pitch. This gets int the front of the box vs. back of the box argument too.

 

[radness]

Did anyone else who read the paper get REALLY hung up on the idea that they assume the release point is 1.5 or 1.8 feet off the ground for pitchers they assume are throwing 65 mph?

@djcarter1966 we were typing at the same time.

I just measured the release points of both my Jugs Jr. that I shortened the legs on per "Hitters" 10 year old advice as well as the height of the bottom wheel of a Hack Attack "I-Hack" which is 28" from the floor.

Really good points you two!!!
Lots of pitchers release mid shin.
Not above knee.

 

[_MIA_]

Really good points you two!!!
Lots of pitchers release mid shin.
Not above knee.

Release height would basically just shift the curves up or down. It would effect the paper conclusions regarding what the parameters need to be for a pitch to pass through the strike zone.

 

[djcarter1966]

Release height would basically just shift the curves up or down. It would effect the paper conclusions regarding what the parameters need to be for a pitch to pass through the strike zone.

Yeah you just have to look at all the variables it's why no matter how hard they try that girl in 10U throwing 35 mph releasing from barely 18 inches off the ground looks like she has more of an arc on the ball; physics dictates she has to.

 

[radness]

Release height would basically just shift the curves up or down. It would effect the paper conclusions regarding what the parameters need to be for a pitch to pass through the strike zone.

... was responding to height of pitching machine,
me shud hav add detail'zzz

Pattar... Can you share math 'ish answer on how gravity affects helping vs hurting
Rise/or/drop.? How much hurt rise and help drop please??
....ps its friday simple words help...lol