Riseball trajectories

[Mr T]

Sorry if this has been covered before. I've been away for a while.

Does this paper on pitch trajectories suggest that a perfectly thrown riseball can actually still be rising when crossing home plate? If I understand the tables and graphs, the suggestion seems to be that the ball would still be rising, although very very slightly, and at the that point be pretty flat for the final feet of travel. Also, it may be nearly impossible to place perfectly so that such a pitch intersects the top of the strike zone.

Nevertheless, I found it to be a surprising result.

 

[djcarter1966]

This ground has really been plowed through on the board (this paper too I think) and you are never going to get people to agree and honestly I'm not even sure there is a "right" answer. The thing I think people really don't look at enough is launch angle this really dictates what happens at the plate, if the launch angle is too great doesn't matter what you do the ball is just going high out of the zone, same if it is too low it's going in the dirt even if it's a riseball. At the correct angle to pitch the ball into the strike zone every ball drops at the plate even a riseball . The example in the paper (and as you point out is some perfect pitch) looks like it is thrown at the maximum angle to be at the top of the zone and the rise "effect" prevents it from dropping and instead it just flatten or basically is exactly at its apex as it crosses the plate (theoretically possible but again it's not rising simply not dropping). A riseball out of the top of the zone would be at a greater angle (or theoretically less spin) it's not rising because it's a riseball it's rising because the launch angle places the apex past the strike zone, granted maybe a fastball at the same launch angle drops into the top of the zone since it doesn't have the rise effect. Anyway should be interesting discussion if people want to engage but I think most are talked out on this topic but we shall see.

 

[sluggers]

Sorry if this has been covered before. I've been away for a while.

Nevertheless, I found it to be a surprising result.

If you throw a fastball "fast enough" with an upward trajectory, the ball will still have an upward trajectory when it crosses the plate.

NASA has a baseball/softball tool showing the flight path of softballs with various spins. We did the same analysis a few years ago. It showed the same result as the paper does.

A riseball never goes above its initial trajectory. The red line shows its initial trajectory..

Neiither men nor women can put enough spin on the ball to have the riseball go above the initial trajectory. But, men can throw a riseball over 75MPH. At 75MPH, the ball can have an upward trajectory as it crosses the plate. That makes a well thrown riseball in men's fastpich almost unhittable.

Few women can t throw a pitch over 75MPH, so a women's riseball has a flat trajectory as it goes over the plate. For women, a riseball is easier to hit than a fastball *IF* the batter can predict when the riseball is thrown. The pitch is always at the top of the strike zone and the trajectory is flat, so the batter uses a "level swing". Lisa Fernandez murdered riseball pitching.

 

[Westwind]

If you throw a fastball "fast enough" with an upward trajectory, the ball will still have an upward trajectory when it crosses the plate.

NASA has a baseball/softball tool showing the flight path of softballs with various spins. We did the same analysis a few years ago. It showed the same result as the paper does.

A riseball never goes above its initial trajectory. The red line shows its initial trajectory..View attachment 16373

Neiither men nor women can put enough spin on the ball to have the riseball go above the initial trajectory. But, men can throw a riseball over 75MPH. At 75MPH, the ball can have an upward trajectory as it crosses the plate. That makes a well thrown riseball in men's fastpich almost unhittable.

Few women can't throw a pitch over 75MPH, so a women's riseball has a flat trajectory as it goes over the plate. For women, a riseball is easier to hit than a fastball *IF* the batter can predict when the riseball is thrown. The pitch is always at the top of the strike zone and the trajectory is flat, so the batter uses a "level swing". Lisa Fernandez murdered riseball pitching.

Sluggers, this is extremely helpful to me. Have you ever looked at drop ball trajectories? Does a good drop ball trajectory travel above the height of release before it "moves" down? If so, how high? Belly button? Thigh high? Or is it released at its highest point in trajectory to steadily become lower?

 

[_MIA_]

Sluggers, this is extremely helpful to me. Have you ever looked at drop ball trajectories? Does a good drop ball trajectory travel above the height of release before it "moves" down? If so, how high? Belly button? Thigh high? Or is it released at its highest point in trajectory to steadily become lower?

Graph he showed gave the result. Initial height at release is at x=0.

 

[Westwind]

Graph he showed gave the result. Initial height at release is at x=0.

Keep in mind I barely passed hs algebra 2. I can't even spell fysics, lol.

I *think* I'm asking if trajectory of a good drop ball is initially upward. If so, how high would a drop ball be at mid flight if the ball then hits the bottom of the strike zone...? Can a female pitcher put higher spin rate on a dropball than a riseball?

Or is a "good" drop ball just the riseball graph above in reverse? In other words a gravity assisted fastball?

 

[_MIA_]

Keep in mind I barely passed hs algebra 2. I can't even spell fysics, lol.

I *think* I'm asking if trajectory of a good drop ball is initially upward. If so, how high would a drop ball be at mid flight if the ball then hits the bottom of the strike zone...? Can a female pitcher put higher spin rate on a dropball than a riseball?

Or is a "good" drop ball just the riseball graph above in reverse? In other words a gravity assisted fastball?

Sorry I misread your post..didn't see the drop ball part

 

[Westwind]

LOL! I was pretty confounded! Which is a normal feeling for me when anything above the level of what I call "lumberyard math" is involved.

EDITED TO ADD: I did not initially see the paper Eco-T posted. It covers what I'm asking I think. I'm trying to read it now.

 

[badmonkey]

Sorry I misread your post..didn't see the drop ball part

The whole thing was the dropball part.

 

[_MIA_]

The whole thing was the dropball part.

Shush..