That explains the pitch this was taken from. Sure didn’t travel like a rise. Played around with it today and got some backspin. What’s the hand action for the change then? Just a push?
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- Aug 21, 2008
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Dani gripped her rise very similar to that of her change. I think she took her thumb off the ball, like those others pictured on this thread and cupped it into her palm on the change. The intense cupping of her wrist in this pic is why I think this is a change, not a rise. Her release was what we'd call a "spinner" , a very slow curve ball type effect. She had a good amount of spin on it so there's a good chance it would give the appearance of a rise if she got under it too much. I thought her change was sometimes TOO slow, and would often encourage her to try putting her thumb on to give it a little more speed.
Her father pitches fastpitch in California, he's the one who taught her the pitches, not me.
And I'd be remiss if I didn't say, she won Freshman of the year in conference last year (as a pitcher) and was Big East pitcher of the week 2-3 times. We had the lowest Team ERA in conference thanks to her.
Bill
Her father pitches fastpitch in California, he's the one who taught her the pitches, not me.
And I'd be remiss if I didn't say, she won Freshman of the year in conference last year (as a pitcher) and was Big East pitcher of the week 2-3 times. We had the lowest Team ERA in conference thanks to her.
Bill
I saw this girl pitch at Providence which is why I searched for video of her. Her change was very deceptive because the spin was curvy, sometimes with a rise tilt to it. It was essentially a palm up change, how unusual is that???
- Aug 21, 2008
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In my experience, change ups (more so than other pitches) are very regionalized in what people learn. In one region you have a lot of "back flip change ups" in another region you have a lot of "pop out". I've known several California pitchers (where she's from) that throw spinner change ups. I'm 99.999% sure she got it from her dad but, I have no idea where he got his info. While what few male pitchers remain in the country don't see pitching coaches, guys that want to learn simply do so by asking questions of the pitchers on their men's beer league teams. I'm guessing someone taught Dani's father this, and he passed it on to her.
Bill
Bill
Thank you. Looking forward to her getting it down.
- Aug 24, 2018
- 72
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^^This
Have my DD trying to spin a Riseball and she was having trouble seeing the spin. So we started from scratch. Arm not moving, hand at the hip, spin the ball.....couldn't do it. I made a double ball and showed her, still couldn't do it. Woke her up the next day and saw the double ball on the floor. Assuming it dropped there untouched, I gave her a hard time. She picked it up and spun it backwards perfectly. Then she said it works for her flip change as well. We're taking it tonight to work from 9 o'clock into a tarp and see how it goes.
I have accumulated a lot of gadgets to help, but nothing beats two old BP balls hooked together with a double screw ;-)
Have not used the double ball yet, will look into it. There were mixed reviews but I went ahead and ordered an ezriseball last week. We were out of town last week but did toss it in the hotel room and by herself if free time. Watching plenty of clips here and using that briefly has her understanding the desired spin. Now to see if it can actually be done!
I had something interesting happen yesterday and wanted to post it here.
I had a session with one of my better students, she just turned 15. We have been working on the riseball for the last 5-6 lessons with little success. I started her with the 'backspin at all costs' approach. She drops her shoulder and focuses on cutting under the ball, she can get the ball to spin properly but when we move to slingshot she has less success. With her full motion it's always bulletspin along with some wild pitches that would go behind a right handed batter. We normally start our riseball work the same way. I remind her that her palm should face 3rd at release and her fingers should also point that way as they cut under the ball. We have tried the palm grip and also the "turn the doorknob' with the fingers approach. She understood the concept but could not get it done.
So last night she's warming up with some easy walk-ins and on the spur of the moment I said "Throw me some backspin". In floats a perfect backspin pitch!!! "Great, do again." She proceeds to throw me 6-7 riseballs, not hard but perfectly spun. At this point I am tempted to stop, go out there and ask her to explain to me what she is doing differently, but I don't want to interrupt the magic of the moment. We start alternating topspin and backspin and it's still working, some of the backspin is not perfectly aligned but it's still very good. We continued with rest of the lesson but before it ended I revisited the backspin-topspin sequence and it was still there. When we were done I asked her what changed. She said that for some unknown reason when I asked her to throw backspin she changed her grip, without really thinking about it, and that was the difference.
Several months ago I started a thread titled T.W.I.T. The subject was internal cues vs external cues for instruction. It occurs to me now that instead of starting our riseball work with the usual internal cues; palm and finger position, wrist action, etc. I simply said throw the ball with backspin, which is an external cue. Now, I'm not equating 'throw the ball with backspin' to 'open sesame' or 'abra cadabra' but it is something to think about and remember.
We have all seen our pitchers get it and lose it so I'm really looking forward to our next session. When the time is right guess what phrase I'm starting with?
I had a session with one of my better students, she just turned 15. We have been working on the riseball for the last 5-6 lessons with little success. I started her with the 'backspin at all costs' approach. She drops her shoulder and focuses on cutting under the ball, she can get the ball to spin properly but when we move to slingshot she has less success. With her full motion it's always bulletspin along with some wild pitches that would go behind a right handed batter. We normally start our riseball work the same way. I remind her that her palm should face 3rd at release and her fingers should also point that way as they cut under the ball. We have tried the palm grip and also the "turn the doorknob' with the fingers approach. She understood the concept but could not get it done.
So last night she's warming up with some easy walk-ins and on the spur of the moment I said "Throw me some backspin". In floats a perfect backspin pitch!!! "Great, do again." She proceeds to throw me 6-7 riseballs, not hard but perfectly spun. At this point I am tempted to stop, go out there and ask her to explain to me what she is doing differently, but I don't want to interrupt the magic of the moment. We start alternating topspin and backspin and it's still working, some of the backspin is not perfectly aligned but it's still very good. We continued with rest of the lesson but before it ended I revisited the backspin-topspin sequence and it was still there. When we were done I asked her what changed. She said that for some unknown reason when I asked her to throw backspin she changed her grip, without really thinking about it, and that was the difference.
Several months ago I started a thread titled T.W.I.T. The subject was internal cues vs external cues for instruction. It occurs to me now that instead of starting our riseball work with the usual internal cues; palm and finger position, wrist action, etc. I simply said throw the ball with backspin, which is an external cue. Now, I'm not equating 'throw the ball with backspin' to 'open sesame' or 'abra cadabra' but it is something to think about and remember.
We have all seen our pitchers get it and lose it so I'm really looking forward to our next session. When the time is right guess what phrase I'm starting with?
- Aug 21, 2008
- 2,386
- 113
I've never heard "mixed reviews" with the double ball. I'm scratching my head trying to figure out what the negative(s) could be? Not only do you get an instant visual of how the ball(s) are actually spinning but, if thrown correctly, the top ball actually turns UNDER the bottom ball helping create back spin. This gives the pitcher the feel for what they're trying to accomplish with a regular ball and helps eliminate the bullet spin pitches by getting rid of the "door knob" analogy, which actually promotes turning the wrist resulting in bullet spin.
I've seen the EZ thing before, and just like using a football for a spiral underhand, I don't think it actually translates into what we need to do when throwing an actual riseball. But that's just my opinion, what do I know?
If you're a baseball guy, he's the easiest way to figure the riseball out: take an overhand curveball, and turn it upside down. Bingo, there's your backspin riseball.
Bill
