Rise or optical illusion?

[BLB]

YouTube - Cat Woman

For those who have not seen this clip, look carefully from the 19 sec mark!

 

[BoardMember]

YouTube - Cat Woman

For those who have not seen this clip, look carefully from the 19 sec mark!

The question is, is this ball "rising" or is the camera dropping..........

 

[BoardMember]

The question always seems to arise regarding "rise off the intended line"......

This is pretty compelling video.........However, camera angles and camera movement can be very deceiving.........

 

[BoardMember]

.......However, camera angles and camera movement can be very deceiving.........

For example..........

While I DO think this is a great example of rise-ball actually RISING off it's intended plane, I think camera drop has created a "bigger" rise then is actually happening........

 

[j.k.]

I put this together to prove to myself that this pitch was not rising like a skeeball! I just patched together the frames from the clip and highlighted the ball location in the frames where it's visible. Obviously the camera movement along with the perspective is very decieving!

 

[ssarge]

I put this together to prove to myself that this pitch was not rising like a skeeball! I just patched together the frames from the clip and highlighted the ball location in the frames where it's visible. Obviously the camera movement along with the perspective is very decieving!

Same tiny hop just after release which Boardmember has demonstrated in the past. Something I really don't understand, BTW, since there is no way Magnus Force can kick in that soon. I have speculated that perhaps it is because the ball is actually leaving the influence (contact with) the hand far earlier than is actually visible to the naked eye. But I truely don't know, and am puzzled by the hop shown by the second / third dots.

What I don't at all find surprising is the fact that the ball is moving downwards through the hitting zone. It's what I always see in profile angle video of a riseball if the pitch is anywhere near a strike.


Including with this particular pitcher. I have dozens of videos of Cat pitching a riseball, taken in profile angle with a stationary camera (most of it by the parent of one of her teammates). At a far more advanced stage of her career. Nothing remotely like what appears to be happening in the first video. Ever, not one pitch. Even though a lot of the footage I have is private, I would absolutely provide an example if I had one showing anything different than what you demonstrate with j.k.'s revised frame-by-frame rendering. But it just isn't there.


I will say this - this is the first video I have ever seen where the illusion effect is evident in a profile angle video (I suppose because of the movbing camera). Happens a lot when the ball is coming at you, even in video (as we al know). But not in profile. An interesting and fun video.

Best regards,

Scott


THis is the first video I have ever seen of the High School Cat. Mark_H - who saw her live in that era - has always mentioned how phenomenal she was, even then.

He's right.

 

[ssarge]

Unless I am seeing it wrong, it looks like the hitter swung ABOVE this pitch as well. Yes? A High School hitter, too. Unusual, for a great rise ball, actualy. (Tells you something about what the pitch actually looked like absent the camera angle).

I think the bottom line is that if what appears to be happening in the video were ACTUALLY true, there would be a LOT of profile angle footage of wickedly rising rise balls out there. But there isn't.

Reagrds,

Scott

 

[redhawkridge]

Not sure what the fuss is about. Cat throws a nice rise -- fact.
If anyone has much experience throwing a rise, they would understand that sometimes a pitched rise isn't well-executed. Sometimes the result is immediate but brief lift of the ball, but the effect is lost by the time it approaches the plate, and it starts to drop again. Happens. But it doesn't mean a good rise doesn't climb.
Also I've seen and thrown rises that act different. Some sweep up from the time it leaves the hand. Others break up late, the path almost hockey stick. And unfortunately many high school coaches like to brag about their pitchers throwing rises when they are only throwing high hard ones that don't drop as much as slower pitches.
jim

 

[ssarge]

But it doesn't mean a good rise doesn't climb.

Well. . . .

Also I've seen and thrown rises that act different. Some sweep up from the time it leaves the hand. Others break up late, the path almost hockey stick. And unfortunately many high school coaches like to brag about their pitchers throwing rises when they are only throwing high hard ones that don't drop as much as slower pitches.

Can you show us some profile angle video prooving this?

And I'll tell you in advance that it is a set-up question. NO one has EVER been able to post a profile angle video of a ball that is a strike and is still maintaining an upward SLANT, much less actually rising through the zone at an angle greater than that established at release. But if you've got it, please post it. Would REALLY like to see that hockey stick type. . . . .

Regards,

Scott

 

[MiltonBC]

I think you would have to video one of the top male pitchers to ever see a ball actually climb as it passes through the hitting zone. Personally, I doubt that it actually climbs very much - if at all - as it is more an issue of perception....that is....the ball doesn't drop as anticipated...so it appears to rise.

But....even if the ball is travelling perfectly flat, it is an effective pitch because hitter's swings are not level but travel upwards at an angle of 10-15 degrees