Rise Ball Speed

[Spin it]

Why do people always revert to gender when talking pitching softball? Yes, men are stronger. But it's not about strength. If it was, every male pitcher would be a steroid junkie trying to get stronger to throw the ball harder. It's about what pitchers are taught. Male and female pitchers. A male pitcher being taught bad mechanics will have the same issue as a female taught those same bad mechanics. But this is only in pitching. Girls are taught to throw overhand the same way, the swing is now the same as boys, they run bases the same, catch fly balls the same way, slide into bases the same.... it's only pitching that people teach differently and I simply don't understand it.

Moreover, I'd be remiss if I didn't say the wrist actually KILLS the riseball more than it helps it. (hootie13 mentioned wrist strength). The wrist is USUALLY what causes bullet spin.

Men/women, boys/girls should be taught the same ABSOLUTES in pitching. Where PC's go wrong is, they teach their own STYLE as though it's ABSOLUTE.

I agree partially. If what you say is true then we would not encourage students to strengthen their grip strength and/or leg strength, which we all know for the most men are going to be more naturally stronger when compared to women top to bottom (of course there are exceptions). Also to avoid the men/versus women strength debate because I am not suggesting that women are inferior (but lets face it the fastest throwers of all time have been men and I'm sure that is not just a technique thing only) the biggest loss in speed we have found is more based on hand size and finger length. Smaller hands and rise ball grips are challenging, so much so some girls revert to throwing it with a 2 seems grip versus the 4 seem grip that they would use for their drop. As with anything I am not making all inclusive statements, just offering what I and others have seen from a larger majority of 13-18 yo girls. Bill has taught many girls so I would definitely lean heavily on his opinion not mine!

 

[Hillhouse]

I agree partially. If what you say is true then we would not encourage students to strengthen their grip strength and/or leg strength, which we all know for the most men are going to be more naturally stronger when compared to women top to bottom (of course there are exceptions). Also to avoid the men/versus women strength debate because I am not suggesting that women are inferior (but lets face it the fastest throwers of all time have been men and I'm sure that is not just a technique thing only) the biggest loss in speed we have found is more based on hand size and finger length. Smaller hands and rise ball grips are challenging, so much so some girls revert to throwing it with a 2 seems grip versus the 4 seem grip that they would use for their drop. As with anything I am not making all inclusive statements, just offering what I and others have seen from a larger majority of 13-18 yo girls. Bill has taught many girls so I would definitely lean heavily on his opinion not mine!

I'm not suggesting a young lady not get stronger! Of course they should. Obviously certain muscles help with pitching, others do not. So, specialized weight training would help anyone. And yes, men can throw harder with bad mechanics. They can throw harder with sheer strength but the overwhelming majority have short careers because their bodies break down. They get hurt often and retire early. Our bodies (male and female) fundamentally work the same way when pitching, it comes down to what we are taught to do. Not all male pitchers, even the best in the world, have ideal mechanics. But their reign at the top is usually short.

I'm not sure how hand size and finger length help with pitching speed. I would say having smaller hands would be a disadvantage for a variety of reasons but, most of the guys I know who threw exceptionally hard didn't have extremely big hands. Certainly not a significantly bigger size than the guy who didn't throw as hard. Fingers sure help with spin and pitches. But, I'm not so sure on the speed part. I'll have to think about this one. Hmmm.

 

[ANNASDAD]

Of course every parent / coach wants their players to be fit and strong!

But in this crazy sport I’ve seen some skinny and awkwardly built girls throw gas! Great mechanics do wonders!

 

[radness]

Of course every parent / coach wants their players to be fit and strong!

But in this crazy sport I’ve seen some skinny and awkwardly built girls throw gas! Great mechanics do wonders!

...and sometimes pitchers who look awkward with their mechanics can do wonders...
That visual and timing glitch they may have...
Super slow wind up
Short and fast wind up
Extra bending
Flailing front foot
...

 

[jsoftballcoach]

DDs rise is a few MPH slower than the drop or curve, she throws the no thumb version. She’s 16


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[BT3100]

DDs rise is 1 to 2 MPH faster than her FB

 

[ArmWhip]

You can't talk about the speed of a pitcher's riseball without also including the quality of the spin. Is it pure backspin, half and half or bullet spin? There are a lot of pitchers that don't know what kind of spin their rise has. I find that there is a tradeoff between speed and spin, more backspin means less speed.

 

[Ken B]

How fast should the rise ball be in comparison to a fastball? My DD is just learning this pitch and I know it will take some time. I just would like to get a bench mark on speed.

Depends on what you’re throwing. A bullet spin rise relies on speed and lack of spin pulling the ball down. The more backspin and the higher the spin rate, the more speed comes off the pitch.
Backspinners who achieve insane spin rates appear to be throwing a magical, floating change up.

 

[Hillhouse]

You can't talk about the speed of a pitcher's riseball without also including the quality of the spin. Is it pure backspin, half and half or bullet spin? There are a lot of pitchers that don't know what kind of spin their rise has. I find that there is a tradeoff between speed and spin, more backspin means less speed.

You had me agreeing until the last sentence. This isn't always the case, yes there are some that work so hard on the backspin that they forget to incorporate that into their mechanics. They don't have to be mutually exclusive though.

Most of the hardest throwers I know have a riseball as their fastest pitch.

 

[Hillhouse]

Depends on what you’re throwing. A bullet spin rise relies on speed and lack of spin pulling the ball down. The more backspin and the higher the spin rate, the more speed comes off the pitch.
Backspinners who achieve insane spin rates appear to be throwing a magical, floating change up.

I disagree with this.