properly addressing rules with umpires

[cshilt]

My contention is that the runner is not legitimately off the base while the pitcher has the ball in her possession. She had not reached first base yet when the pitcher took possession of the ball in the circle. She had not yet legally occupied first when the pitcher took possession of the ball, thus, when she went forward to another base and then reversed direction she would be out unless the pitcher made a play on her.

After a walk the batter-runner is entitled to advance to first without liability to be put out. The play isn't over until she stops at first or continues to the next base, regardless of whether the pitcher has the ball in their possession or not.

Here is the link to the USSSA Fastpitch Rulebook. They have highlighted some of the text to help clarify. Usually text is highlighted when there is a change to the rule, but in this case it is to help people understand the rule better. The Look-Back Rule is on page 35. The rule is 8-2:

http://www.usssa.com/usssa/usssa-general/2009FPRules.pdf

 

[SnocatzDad]

We had a similar situation last night in regards to politely reminding an umpire of the rules

Runner on 1B, no outs, dropped third strike on batter, runner on 1B steals 2B and catcher returns ball to the pitcher because she knows there is no play at 1B on the batter/runner, she is out by rule because the base was occupied with less than 2 outs.

Batter runner is standing on 1B hopeful, but knows she's out, umpire still hasn't called anything. I called time and asked blue "You called her out at one because the base was occupied right blue? ". Umpire thinks for a second then says "That's correct, she's out at one, base was occupied." No complaints from either side just a polite nudge to the umpire to get in the game.

 

[go4fpsb]

The best advice I ever got regarding how to argue with an umpire about a rule interpretation was from the NW Coach Kate Drohan at a NFCC clinic. She said if you feel the ump didn't not apply the rule in question correctly, was to approach the ump and ask "What did you see?" Once you establish that you both saw the same thing then you can move on to the rule but until you can agree that you both saw the same thing happen you are not going to win the argument.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

Alabama, Your interpretation is wrong, but it is what many people think. All rule sets allow the runner (doesn't matter if it is a walk or not) to round first base and come back. Now, if you do step off towards 2nd base, you can be thrown out, though.

Running through 1st base, you can turn right or left and come directly back to the bag. You cannot be thrown out at that point.

Once you stop on the bag (any bag), you cannot proceed, if the pitcher has the ball in the circle.

But, if you do not stop on the bag you can "round the bag and come back," even if the pitcher has the ball in the circle. This applies to any base. You can round the bag and keep going, as long as you do not stop.

Most runners that draw a walk at the younger ages, just stop on the base automatically. They need taught to run down the basepath, round the bag and see if they can draw a throw. The ball might get thrown into CF.

 

[Mark H]

Of course I don't always follow my own advice. One of two times I was tossed in my whole time coaching was over the strike zone. We had a blue who would only call a strike down the middle belt high and at 14u travel you know how thats going to turn out. After many diplomatic inquiries, I couldn't stand it anymore and in the 4th inning I walked out on the field with one those hitting stick gizmos and acted like I was a blind man swinging a cane back and fourth, so naturally, out I go (and justifiably so.)
.

I'd have bought a ticket to watch that.

 

[calgofo]

Admittedly, not one of my finer on field moments but it did have a certain comical quality to it.

 

[Mark H]

I think the comedy more than makes up for anything else. I expect the stands were in tears from laughter.

 

[Glipski]

Sounds familiar..what part of Alabama? Had time been called when the runner went towards 2nd? Sometimes they tend to use that for reason not to call the runner out...