Practice swings to brush back catcher(?)

[CrazyNani]

Saw something new in last weekend's tournament.

One particular batter from a team we played had a peculiar warm-up routine, which she did every swing of every at-bat. While in the batter's box, she would swing the bat back like a golf club and basically bring it straight behind her, level with the ground and as far as she could reach it while holding her feet/body in a normal batting stance. Then if the pitch wasn't delivered right away, she'd continue to swing the bat directly behind her back and forth like a pendulum. If the catcher wasn't at least 5' behind her, they were at risk of being hit by the bat during this "warm-up."

It certainly had the appearance of being an intentional way to push the catchers farther away from the plate. Our catchers couldn't even snug up on her after her routine because there was no telling when she was going to twitch back with the bat. If they were in actual proper position, they'd be taking a bat under the chin for sure (ok, it would probably hit their arm and glove first). Perhaps it is just something random that developed over time and is just now her normal routine, but this was a VERY well coached A level team -- I find it hard to believe this wasn't coached and done with a purpose (though it was only one specific batter from that team).

Is this a "thing"? We've played a few years of TB (12U and younger) and my catcher DD has never seen anything like this. Maybe this is just something that's just a new part of the game to get used as we play at higher levels. If so, how do you teach catchers to deal with it? If not, (and I hope it's not a normal thing, because it seemed to me to be both dangerous and unsportsmanlike), what recourse is there? Based on my amateur's review of the rules, nothing in here seems to violate any specific rule (we were playing under ASA rules). In retrospect, she was definitely swinging the bat through the area defined as the catcher's box... if that matters.

Well, what if the bat actually made contact with the catcher? Wouldn't the ump have something to say about this?

 

[Strike2]

Where the batter is looking is not relevant. It is legal to hold the bat in that position and hope to distract the catcher. Now, if I were pitching the batter might be very surprised where the pitch ended up.

I said nothing about holding the bat in a bunt position, by itself, being illegal. However, the batter looking back at the catcher during the pitch, deliberately working to place the bat to interfere with the catcher, is a problem. Granted such bush league BS seems to only be found at younger age groups, but it would take a very loose interpretation of both the interference and sportsmanship rule for that to be OK.

 

[mmeece]

Granted such bush league BS seems to only be found at younger age groups, but it would take a very loose interpretation of both the interference and sportsmanship rule for that to be OK.

It's bush league to be sure and that batter would probably need to wear a pitch, just not illegal.

 

[The Man In Blue]

I said nothing about holding the bat in a bunt position, by itself, being illegal. However, the batter looking back at the catcher during the pitch, deliberately working to place the bat to interfere with the catcher, is a problem. Granted such bush league BS seems to only be found at younger age groups, but it would take a very loose interpretation of both the interference and sportsmanship rule for that to be OK.

That is an interesting one. I think I would be unlikely to catch that as the umpire, unless I happened to notice the batter‘s head turned around before the pitch gets there.

If I saw it (and that is a huge “if”), I might have an interference call. If not, I would definitely have a word with the coach and the batter. “Coach, batter ... that can be considered interference. I catch it again and not only are we going to have problems, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the next pitch didn’t result in a hit batter. Let’s knock it off before things escalate.”

I haven‘t noticed this ... but things like this tend to be at the older levels due to the skill needed to pull it off, IMO.

 

[radness]

That is an interesting one. I think I would be unlikely to catch that as the umpire, unless I happened to notice the batter‘s head turned around before the pitch gets there.

If I saw it (and that is a huge “if”), I might have an interference call. If not, I would definitely have a word with the coach and the batter. “Coach, batter ... that can be considered interference. I catch it again and not only are we going to have problems, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the next pitch didn’t result in a hit batter. Let’s knock it off before things escalate.”

I haven‘t noticed this ... but things like this tend to be at the older levels due to the skill needed to pull it off, IMO.

@The Man In Blue

Glad to read your responses are directly in line with the umpiring responses/experiences that i have gathered which prompted my post to this topic!

Impression is you are an umpire/person with integrity who pays attention to your official role on the field!

Observant attentive umpires are my favorite!
Not always part of the umpires attributes. At times need to find ways to "as politely as possible" bring attention to a circumstance on the field.
Which i tried to offer suggestions toward.

Perhaps you can offer a proper way for people to address an umpire to handle these situations?
Although sounds like your already on top of it....

Thank you for that sir !

 

[mmeece]

That is an interesting one. I think I would be unlikely to catch that as the umpire, unless I happened to notice the batter‘s head turned around before the pitch gets there.

If I saw it (and that is a huge “if”), I might have an interference call. If not, I would definitely have a word with the coach and the batter. “Coach, batter ... that can be considered interference. I catch it again and not only are we going to have problems, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the next pitch didn’t result in a hit batter. Let’s knock it off before things escalate.”

I haven‘t noticed this ... but things like this tend to be at the older levels due to the skill needed to pull it off, IMO.

I'm curious, interference based on what? Not arguing, I just don't understand how you could call interference simply based on the batter looking at one spot vs. another. I don't like the batter doing it (in my baseball days he wouldn't have done it for long), I just wasn't aware of any rule that would prevent it or that would change based on where the batter was looking.

 

[The Man In Blue]

I'm curious, interference based on what? Not arguing, I just don't understand how you could call interference simply based on the batter looking at one spot vs. another. I don't like the batter doing it (in my baseball days he wouldn't have done it for long), I just wasn't aware of any rule that would prevent it or that would change based on where the batter was looking.

Valid question, as there are many misconceptions about interference. Let’s look at the definition which says it all:

From USA Softball:


From NFHS:


From USSSA:


From NCAA:


In essence, any act that denies the defense a proper play can be deemed interference. While intent is not a requirement, deliberately trying to obstruct the catcher’s view is (a) an act by the offense, and (b) may be interfering with the catcher making a play.

I would need to see three things for me to call it interference, and not all of these are required by rule.

1) The batter looking at the catcher and adjusting shows me it is an intentional act. Note: intent is not required by rule. However it can be a fine line between interference and “stuff happens”. Most of the time an umpire will err on the side of “stuff happens” and let the kids play. With the batter looking at the catcher and adjusting, we have eliminated that margin of error.

2) The catcher needs to make the play. No play = no opportunity for interference. It is very rare that you can successfully justify interference if the defense just stops.

3) The play needs to be unsuccessful. If the catcher throws the runner out, there is no penalty to assess (beyond a warning for the batter and coach).

 

[The Man In Blue]

@The Man In Blue

Glad to read your responses are directly in line with the umpiring responses/experiences that i have gathered which prompted my post to this topic!

Impression is you are an umpire/person with integrity who pays attention to your official role on the field!

Observant attentive umpires are my favorite!
Not always part of the umpires attributes. At times need to find ways to "as politely as possible" bring attention to a circumstance on the field.
Which i tried to offer suggestions toward.

Perhaps you can offer a proper way for people to address an umpire to handle these situations?
Although sounds like your already on top of it....

Thank you for that sir !

How to address an umpire on this? Just do it. Do it calmly and do it professionally.

Keep in mind that the umpire is watching lots of other things, and the batter’s eyes are likely not on that list. As I said, this would be a significant catch by an umpire just because it is a tough call. Keep in mind you are basically asking the umpire to not watch the pitch through the strike zone.

“Blue, can I talk to you about something? I know you have a lot of things to keep your eye on during a pitch, but their batter is attempting to interfere with our catcher when she squares to bunt. She is immediately looking at our catcher and adjusting her bat into our catcher’s eye-line. She isn’t making an attempt at the ball at all. I know that is going to be hard to catch on your part, but maybe you can ask the base umpire to try to keep an eye on that?”

 

[mmeece]

@The Man In Blue
I see where you're coming from but I think this falls much closer to the category of gamesmanship than interference. I wouldn't like it but can't see calling interference on this any more than many other plays the offense can use to to mislead/misdirect the defense.

 

[BradyC87]

@The Man In Blue
I see where you're coming from but I think this falls much closer to the category of gamesmanship than interference. I wouldn't like it but can't see calling interference on this any more than many other plays the offense can use to to mislead/misdirect the defense.

Not sure the definition leaves much room for opinion.

We play under USA Softball rules and their definition is pretty clear. Not agreeing with it does not mean it isn't a violation... If the batter is intentionally putting their bat in the sightline of the catcher they are actively impeding her from trying to make a play.