Posture

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Jun 8, 2016
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113
Then he started talking about tilt. Go back and look 👀
I know..I was responding to the initial intent of the thread..hence the reason I didn't quote anybody :)
Now it is time to go hit with my DD who neither keeps posture over the ball or tilts properly.. :LOL:
 
Oct 13, 2014
5,471
113
South Cali
Since Pattar stepped in. I like a ‘nose over toes’ posture in the stance. Chest over knees and tallIsh. But not an absolute. I like an active stance over anything , If that makes sense. Think Matt Carpenter back bend, Miggy with a studder step , Mookie with a pump, Think it’s a style thing. Whatever gets the hitter comfortable and helps them time the pitcher. So they could eventually time the ball.




Freeman likes an upright stance so he has space to work his hands.Theres a bonus lesson about hand path 😃 also.

Then you got Rickey. So.. there isn’t a right way.

 
Oct 13, 2014
5,471
113
South Cali
I really don’t talk about tilt or posture. I do ask for taller stance with ‘nose over toes’ , as long as the chest isn’t to far over the plate.

I really worry about the knee flexion over the torso posture. I ask for some knee flexion but not over done. But as long as a player can shift to a good balanced ‘hitting position’ on time, without coming out of their legs. I’m good with whatever.

Feeling his legs:



I look for even dynamic flexion at toe touch. Making sure there are no inhibitors to this goal.

Some do it more vertically, others horizontally. Most blend the two. Few do it in place.

Forgot to quote you.
 
Aug 20, 2017
1,474
113
I think posture and tilt are both important to teach. I think they go together. If you posture is good (athletic, tension in legs, butt out slightly, chest over slightly) and it’s maintained during the swing, the shoulders will tilt appropriately and the barrel will match the plane of the shoulders. Too many players come out of posture too early, mainly due to being out of sequence, firing from the top down. Posture and tilt are both pitch specific. JMO
 
Nov 16, 2017
406
63
I think posture and tilt are both important to teach. I think they go together. If you posture is good (athletic, tension in legs, butt out slightly, chest over slightly) and it’s maintained during the swing, the shoulders will tilt appropriately and the barrel will match the plane of the shoulders. Too many players come out of posture too early, mainly due to being out of sequence, firing from the top down. Posture and tilt are both pitch specific. JMO

So if we are to separate the two on a technical level, It would be posture being keeping the spine straight while lowering your height by moving the chest over and the butt out. Tilt would be a middle to top curving of the spine. If that is the case and the definitions I definitely teach use as much appropriate posture adjustments and as little tilt as possible.

Just from a mechanical point of view a good posture will produce a stronger more athletic situation and tilt will take a little away. Not to say tilt isn't needed, but as a very fine adjustment. A large tilt by this definition would definitely put you in a physical disadvantage.

Is that they way you distinguish the two?
 
Aug 20, 2017
1,474
113
So if we are to separate the two on a technical level, It would be posture being keeping the spine straight while lowering your height by moving the chest over and the butt out. Tilt would be a middle to top curving of the spine. If that is the case and the definitions I definitely teach use as much appropriate posture adjustments and as little tilt as possible.

Just from a mechanical point of view a good posture will produce a stronger more athletic situation and tilt will take a little away. Not to say tilt isn't needed, but as a very fine adjustment. A large tilt by this definition would definitely put you in a physical disadvantage.

Is that they way you distinguish the two?
The key is getting into good posture during the stride. I agree that tilt is a non teach if good posture is maintained. I agree with your definition of posture. In the Mookie gif above he begins tallbut during his stride he gets into good posture.
 
Sep 17, 2009
1,637
83
What comes first? Direction or tilt? That is how tilt is created. It’s really a no teach. The front leg and front elbow do the adjusting in good swings.

Learn how to use your hands.The hand/barrel path dictates tilt.

Here’s a good tutorial on why a push is a push. Also why knob to ball gets a bad rep. Casey is perfect with his analysis.



Edit: learn how to use your hands and how to ‘load’ them.


There's a lot to unpack in this video -- most of it not good. Let's start with his main idea that the slotting elbow somehow 'holds back' the hands. He says so many things that just aren't good:

'it's almost a two part swing'
'it's such a violent act (referencing the slotting of the elbow)'
'this delay of the elbow holds the bat lag'
'that back elbow is independent of your hands'

Yet from 1:05 to 1:10 when he says the primary ACTION is the elbow slotting, you can literally see the hitter's hands torquing the barrel, and the elbow responding to that turning of the barrel.

It is NOT the 'holding back of the elbow' (whatever that means) that lets the lower half get ahead....it's the rearward barrel turn that does it. You don't slot and whip. That's not how any whipping action occurs (ie, a bullwhip). It's turn it rearward to whip it forward.

Basically, he's saying a bunch of words words words that aren't reflecting what is actually happening even as he looks and points at it.

He's getting closer. He admits 'knob to the ball' can be a very dangerous cue if wrongly applied. Can't argue with that. He says the hands are so important. Yep.

But then he describes a two-part swing that is 1) elbow slot 2) hands whip. Nope. That's not it. He's STILL (mis)analyzing freeze-frame positions vs. understanding movement.

And then of course Harold says the hitter 'does a lot of things you can't teach' which basically translates to 'yeah, I still don't know what the hell is happening in the swing.'
I will agree Casey trips on himself a bit. But as far as what is happening at slot. He gets it right. Harold said ‘it’s not taught’. He’s right. If you get knob to ball right as well as barrel path, it really is a no teach. Elbow slot and long through will be the result. Like I said, get the load right in balance , then knob to ball is the only thing that matters. That’s what Casey’s message was in the video. Here he says it again. Try to listen to it without bias. But go by how much you know about the sequence and mechanics in general. He speaks of the sequence. He doesn’t include everything. But he says I want to point out ‘why’ Davis is so good. Just like Mustakas. He’s not giving a hitting lesson. He’s keying in on a few things broadly.



If he was torquing the barrel. It would have been blurring. But it wasn’t. Not until the initial turn was done. EVERY GOOD SWING BLURS AFTER THE INITIAL TURN OF THE BARREL AND THE HANDS COME FORWARD. They don’t want rearward barrel speed, they want deep instant barrel speed. The initial turn of the barrel is direction not torque. Happens when he slots. Coincidental?? Don’t think so.



The barrel lagging with the elbow underneath is fundamental. The ‘delay’ he speaks of is really the lower half running start (separation). What everyone wants. He even explains it. That’s where everyone screws up knob to ball. He says it himself. No load.

Separation is an on going mechanic from forward move until toe touch/foot down.

If one is a ‘torque/turn’ the barrel get on plane deep guy’ this doesn’t make sense. Again if your on plane deep then tilt would happen before direction. Doesn’t happen with any pro hitters I have seen.

If you don’t believe in a two part swing I guess you don’t believe Ted Williams ‘hips ahead of hands’?? Sounds like 2 parts to me. They certainly don’t go at the same time do they?



The barrel doesn’t pick up speed until he slots.It turns a bit, then picks up speed.
Direction-Slot-Speed.

This guy does the opposite. This is why he waits as long as possible on his back leg and throws everything at the ball.This would be a one piece swing. No running start. Back elbow behind the hands on all swings. He needs the ‘race’. Push swings work. But mainly oppo hitters. Can’t get the barrel around fast enough for the most part. Luckily he’s 6’8 280lbs with 310 rf fence. No agenda. Just picked the first pusher I could think of.



His 'two-part swing' is two parts for the upper -- slot elbow and delay/release hands. It is NOT two-part re: hips and hands. I believe in sequenced hips and hands. Sit in a chair, put the barrel in front of you. One way you can take the barrel to hitting position is to take your hands back which will bring your bottom back with it and then you move both forward all-together. That's not what you want, I imagine we agree. Next, same position and work the barrel back and forth, tip and turn style. You'll see the body organize so that the bottom moves forward as the barrel turns rearward. You don't get the bottom ahead of the top by somehow DELAYING the hands in an explosive quarter-second action. There are no delays. Lag is there, I agree, but you lag with your stretch and pullback in away that enhances the whip, not via your elbow slotting. You do it with a sequenced whip that is the result of turning the barrel rearward while the bottom drives ahead and pulls the barrel through. Again, IMO :)
 

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