Please share your input on my DD's motion(video)

[BusterT]

Increase her stride - she needs to develop an explosive push off the pitching rubber. This will accomplish two things: 1) She's effectively closer to the plate at release, which gives the illusion of a faster pitch, and 2) Provided she gets her weight balanced (weight off the drag foot), she will get more "pop" on her release by using the resistance from the front leg - similar to the blocking action of the front leg in hitting.

I would STRONGLY urge the assistance of a qualified pitching coach before embarking on a complete makeover of her motion. But now (off season) is a good time to start. Change is never easy, but getting rid of that replant will go a long way towards impressing DI college coaches.

 

[sluggers]

As a word of caution, don't attempt to make big changes in her motion at this time. If she will be a freshman next year, I would be reluctant to work on anything other than changing the back swing, her timing, and staying open.

At her age, she should be learning to throw a good breaking pitch. Messing around with her motion will delay that development.

 

[BusterT]

Making changes and getting outside your comfort zone is always difficult. Is she going to be satisfied being a decent high school pitcher, or is she eager to advance her skills to the college level? If college ball is a goal, focusing on freshman high school ball should be distant second priority. If you don't have older daughters who've experience high school ball, trust me. She'll do just fine as a freshman - no worries.

Mechanics cannot be drastically changed during any season, whether it be spring high school, or summer club ball. The winter season is prime time to jump in and fix things. It's already December, so you have about 2 1/2 months to work hard. By delaying fixing the replant, you potentially lose nearly a year in development. In 2 1/2 months, she can make significant progress. Will she be an elite pitcher by February? Probably not, but by working on her mechanics NOW, she'll be much better prepared going into summer ball.

IMO, too much emphasis is put into playing indoor tournaments in the winter. Simply playing games and repeating the same ingrained mechanics will not necessarily make you a better player. Individual pitching and hitting instruction is crucial over the winter to make significant gains in your skill level. Use the games as a test of your newly developed mechanics.

 

[sluggers]

I wasn't concerned about freshman softball. If she is on the HS freshman team, then she won't pitch in college. Good pitchers spend *maybe* one year on the JV team, and then play varsity.

The year she enters HS establishes the timing. Coaches pick players in the summer of the players junior year. So, if she will be a freshman in a year and wants to pitch in college, she has to be throwing 60+ mph and have a "real" drop or rise in less than 3 years.

To attempt to convert her from a step and throw pitcher to a leap and drag pitcher is way too much *IF* she is 14YOA. Converting her to a leap and drag pitcher takes time away from learning real breaking pitches and working on her arm speed (where 80% of the speed is).

Good college coaches aren't impressed by form. They take a speed gun and measure the speed of her pitches and then see if she has a "real" breaking pitch. Then they look at control. A pitcher with great form who throws 55 mph won't play at the D1 level. A pitcher with lousy form but who throws 62 mph can play at the D1 level.

 

[Ken Krause]

Actually, whether a freshman moves up partially depends on who is ahead of her. If there are a couple of established sophomores of equal ability, the way could be blocked for the freshman. Same thing with any other position. You might be an excellent shortstop and college-worthy, but if the best shortstop to ever play at your school is a year ahead of you, you won't be playing that position until she graduates. Even if you would've been a starter anywhere else in the conference.

As for needing 60 mph to play in college, generally true. But I've seen some who threw in the high 50s at the D1 level and were quite successful. One pitched for the National team this summer. Also held the strikeout record for a couple of years. But she can make the ball dance.

 

[BusterT]

I wasn't concerned about freshman softball. If she is on the HS freshman team, then she won't pitch in college. Good pitchers spend *maybe* one year on the JV team, and then play varsity.

I absolutely agree with you here sluggers, because that was exactly what happened to my DD - one year JV, then 3 years at varsity. DD didn't play varsity her freshman year simply because there were two senior "pitchers" on varsity. DD's now pitching DI college, and the other two were never recruited, and didn't even play college ball.

Actually, I was extremely happy for her, because she pitched literally every game at JV. Had she been on varsity as a freshman, the political machine would have kept her on the bench. Knowing how the system works at your high school, and not fighting it, is sometimes the best option.

My point is that there are MANY contributing factors controlling high school ball that have nothing to do with ability, maturity, etc. At our high school, it's more about pleasing the loyal masses and not "dissing" the upper classmen. Your high school may be completely different, but a lot of school programs operate this way. We knew this going in, so the emphasis for my DD was more centered on getting prepared for the summer club ball season where college coaches are recruiting. Am I a bitter dad? Absolutely not! DD had a fun experience with high school ball, although not a very competitive one. She learned a lot about "how things work" in the real world. She also learned how to be a leader, and help her team mates "gel" when things aren't going well on the field - a valuable skill for a college pitcher.

IMO, if a kid has a strong desire to play college ball, especially at the DI level, the emphasis on skill development should be priority #1. How well your high school team performs with you at the helm as a pitcher is irrelevant to that goal. Delaying skill development based on the approaching high school season is a big mistake, simply because when the recruiting season comes (summer), you will be that much further behind your peers - other pitchers in the same recruiting pool.

Concerning a "step" pitcher vs. "leap and drag", I have yet to see a female "step" pitcher in DI college ball. Most men pitchers can throw 65+ with nothing more than upper body mechanics. But for females, not developing the lower body - especially the legs - can be a death knell for college dreams. My concern with Holly would be to eliminate the replant ASAP, and develop a longer, more powerful, balanced leap and drag. There's no time like the present for "getting better".

 

[sluggers]

You should get out more. There are a number of "step and throw" pitchers in D1. My DD was an all-conference D1 pitcher who used the step & throw method. She could occasionally burst up to 67 mph. She cruised around 63 mph.

Marie Barda (U of M--she broke the protective glass behind the plate during the CWS a few years back) was also a step and throw pitcher. She cruised at 65 mph. I don't know what Marie's top end was--she was very, very good.

 

[Hillhouse]

Mechanics cannot be drastically changed during any season, whether it be spring high school, or summer club ball. The winter season is prime time to jump in and fix things.

This is an interesting statement. Would you also same the same for hitting? If you noticed, mid season, that a hitter developed a bad habit that completely screwed up their swing and timing, are you saying you'd not try to fix it right then and there? If there is a difference please explain it to me. In my mind, there is NEVER a wrong time to start doing something a better way or the correct way. In my own pitching career, I know that if something is wrong... I work on changing it and do not wait for the offseason. Wait a minute, is there a such thing as 'off season?' LOL

 

[BusterT]

When to fix things...

Mechanics cannot be drastically changed during any season, whether it be spring high school, or summer club ball. The winter season is prime time to jump in and fix things. It's already December, so you have about 2 1/2 months to work hard. By delaying fixing the replant, you potentially lose nearly a year in development. In 2 1/2 months, she can make significant progress. Will she be an elite pitcher by February? Probably not, but by working on her mechanics NOW, she'll be much better prepared going into summer ball.

IMO, if a kid has a strong desire to play college ball, especially at the DI level, the emphasis on skill development should be priority #1. How well your high school team performs with you at the helm as a pitcher is irrelevant to that goal. Delaying skill development based on the approaching high school season is a big mistake, simply because when the recruiting season comes (summer), you will be that much further behind your peers - other pitchers in the same recruiting pool.

My concern with Holly would be to eliminate the replant ASAP, and develop a longer, more powerful, balanced leap and drag. There's no time like the present for "getting better".

Bill - Some quotes to try to clarify my thinking on this. For younger kids 10u to possibly 14u, I'd say anytime - even during the playing season - is the time to fix mechanics - even drastic changes, such as a complete makeover. A good example would be a very athletic "diamond in the rough" kid moving from rec. to club ball, who has great potential and ability, but has very poor mechanics from some bad teaching in rec.

The ONLY situation where I'd take baby steps would be with a 16u kid with DI potential in the middle of the summer recruiting season. Minor tweaks and "refreshers" are absolutely necessary - but I'm saying a COMPLETE change in mechanics, like going from a "step" motion to a "leap and drag", could possibly be disasterous - of course depending on the athlete.

Of course, if a 16u's mechanics (swing OR pitching) are THAT bad to have to do a complete makeover, she's probably not getting a lot of DI looks anyway. I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying it's rare.

Swing mechanics are similar, but again - it depends on the athlete. If you have a 16u with horrible bat drag, a casting swing, no weight transfer, rolling wrists before contact, etc., she's going to probably take quite a few steps backwards before she significantly improves. However, minor adjustments to correct a single minor deficiency should be done ANYTIME on an ongoing basis.

So, IMO, there's a time to "tweak" and also a time for complete rehab. The athlete's pitching or hitting coach knows what she's capable of from working with her, and should make that decision based on her abilities.

P.S. Sorry for the thread hijack, lhowser! Maybe this banter has given you some insight...

 

[Hillhouse]

Buster, thanks for sending the group of quotes. I guess I didn't read the whole thread.

Sluggers suggested she work on some breaking pitches, however from what I see that would be extremely difficult using these mechanics. #1. The back arm swing is locking her elbow, and it's staying locked through the motion. This is going to severely limit what she can do. #2. It appears she has her wrist cupped through the armcircle. The combo of wrist cupped and elbow locked probably result in "bullet" spin on pitches. #3. She's loosing some power by bending the back knee prior to the pitch The back leg should remain straight to keep the push off pressure on the front leg, for a bigger explosion. #4. She's got almost zero elbow snap going on in the pitch, this is due to both the elbow lock and her follow through. I'm guessing Holly gets sore right in her shoulder area. This is due to using more 'muscle' to throw the ball because her body is not moving very efficiently. #5. She crow hops. While I personally think crow hopping should be LEGAL in today's game, it's not. However, the mistake people make is thinking you need to fix the footwork to fix crowhopping. WRONG. Crowhopping happens because of the hands, not the feet. The feet merely follow the hands. There is a 'hitch' in her arm circle which allows the feet to reposition themselves. Generally, the hitch occurs at the same point as the foot doing the hop. But, if you fix the hands and make the hand go smooth and fast... then the feet will not have a chance to replant! I would also fix that back foot kick, but the others would come first.

JMHO
Bill