Player ejected

[Wahini]

Hi
New here
Question regarding what happened to a teammate.
18U
During a single elimination Tournament

Teammate on third
Ball is batted
Teammate runs
Everyone yelling slide go etc

Slides into/ under catcher who is blocking path. Catcher jumps on top of her to prevent her from getting to plate trying to pin her down

Runner then pushes catcher off to try to get to plate (catcher still doesn't have ball)

Runner gets to plate is called safe point awarded but gets EJECTED for shoving

She was devasted

We all believe this was highly unfair
What's your take?

 

[The Man In Blue]

Really something that one would have to see, but as you describe it ... it may have been the right call.

That is almost one of those impossible-to-win scenarios because it is (more often than not) a reaction to try to shove and push your way out when somebody is trying to pin you down. Nonetheless, the obstruction occurred so the runner was now protected. The best thing to do is nothing, but our minds don’t work that way, particularly in the heat of the game.

As an umpire, I take a lot of things into consideration ... primarily “how have the attitudes of the teams and those particular players been during the game, during the event, and after the event?” Most of the emphasis is going to go on what just happened and what happened afterwards though.

Was “the push” a squirm or reasonable reaction to the catcher laying on top of her, or was it a “b#### get off me!” revenge push with excessive force?

PS — welcome! Hope you stick around! This place is a treasure trove of information and knowledgeable people!

 

[Wahini]

That is very hard to say as I was in the dugout and it all happened so fast. My teammate said she didn't swear or anything and that she was just trying to get to the base. It was so upsetting as shes sensitive person who wouldn't hurt anyone. She's like our "team councillor"

 

[Wahini]

What happened afterward was she was crying for 1/2 hour

 

[WVSteven]

We can't take what happened afterward or crying into consideration. As Man in Blue said, it may have been the right call. Obstruction occurred but malicious contact takes precedence. In fact of it was malicious contact then the run should score. Runner out and disqualified.

All that said, I was not there so I cannot say for sure. But a shove puts you in jeopardy of the call.

 

[MTR]

We can't take what happened afterward or crying into consideration. As Man in Blue said, it may have been the right call. Obstruction occurred but malicious contact takes precedence. In fact of it was malicious contact then the run should score. Runner out and disqualified.

All that said, I was not there so I cannot say for sure. But a shove puts you in jeopardy of the call.

If someone was inappropriately laying on top of you, are you not going to defend yourself?

 

[The Man In Blue]

If someone was inappropriately laying on top of you, are you not going to defend yourself?

That’s the part I was referencing ... and it is all in the eye of the beholder.

It is natural instinct to react to force with force ... I’m not saying punch to punch. I agree if somebody is laying on top of you (force pressing down), your reaction is to push back (force pushing up) to get out. That is what we as umpires have to look at — did it appear a “natural” reaction or was it intentional and malicious (revenge)?

“Blue, she was just defending herself!” Using a word like “defend” will sway me towards a deliberate action.

“Blue, she was just reacting Using a word like “react” sways me toward instinctual action.

Now an interesting twist ... would you consider the catcher’s actions malicious and would you consider an ejection there?

 

[The Man In Blue]

We can't take what happened afterward or crying into consideration. As Man in Blue said, it may have been the right call. Obstruction occurred but malicious contact takes precedence. In fact of it was malicious contact then the run should score. Runner out and disqualified.

All that said, I was not there so I cannot say for sure. But a shove puts you in jeopardy of the call.

Correct ... I didn’t mean the “aftermath” I meant in the moments immediately after. Things such as:

Were there words exchanged?

Did either player continue to go after the other or “linger” afterwards?

What were both players’ reactions?

Wahini — I am sure she probably was devastated and that is unfortunate. Hopefully she doesn’t let it get in her head and impact her down the road. Note I am not saying it was the right call. Just that it could have been.

In all my years, I have had plenty of coaches eject themselves from games. I have had plenty of parents exercise the option to no longer participate in the game. I have never had to remove a player though. I’ve issued warnings, I’ve had talks with players, and I’ve offered advice to players, but fortunately I’ve never had to drop one.

The choice to eject a player is one an umpire should make very precisely. I am not saying that you should let players get away with things or justify their actions. I am saying that an ejection of a player should be more than a punishment, it should be a preventative action to stop any additional issues. IMO, “this isn’t going to stop, so I have to stop it.”

 

[djcarter1966]

That was my thought if the catcher is physically preventing her from getting to the base she could just as easily been ejected. As catcher jumps to avoid the slide she lands on top of her that is "natural" she continues to lay on top of her as the play is live "not natural".

The biggest thing obviously is the nature of the shove and this is 100% in the eye of the beholder, it is a judgement call and absolutely nothing you can do about it, although if you are laying on the ground on your back its pretty hard to see how you would be viewed as the "aggressor" acting maliciously. Be that as it may if the umpire thought the player was acting aggressively and maliciously towards another player they don't really have a choice if that shove looks more like a punch...again no real choice and strictly in the eyes of the beholder.

As far as just laying there and counting on the umpire to call the obstruction...I'm never teaching that to my players, you should hustle and do whatever you can while the ball is live to score for your team or get an out for your team...let the umps sort it out later.

 

[Wahini]

Thank you for your responses. The difficulty we are having is trying to figure out why what she did was so bad to warrant such a harsh punishment. If anythingmaybe a warning? None of us or coaches have never seen a player ejected and for this to happen to her of all people. Just crazy. We all saw the "shove" it wasn't even that hard, the catcher hardly moved and certainly wasnt hurt. Our coaches cant even explain to us what to do if we are ever in that situation and only are saying that the ump was in the wrong and let it go. The only thing we can think of is that my teammate swore or something but she says she didnt but we think it might be hard to remember yelling or saying something with all the activity going on in like 30 seconds