Pitching Strategy against good hitters

[Agbracing]

Disclaimer: I am not a pitching coach, merely the dad of a 12U pitcher.

On the advice of my DD's pitching coach, who was a pretty good D1 pitcher and a self proclaimed "physics nerd" I would stay away from your girls using a flip change.

From what I was told, the way the ball spins with the flip change if the batter gets good wood (composite?) on it, their chances of murdering it is better. The rotation spins back the opposite way and the ball will really carry.

DD's pitching coach teaches a circle change, a "shove change up" and something I don't even know the name of depending on what her students seem most physically comfortable with/capable of throwing best.

I personally think the flip change is one of the best pitches in softball. That’s one of the greatest things about this sport and pitching. There are many different ways and thoughts to get batters out. Now I agree the spin is back spin which if properly squared up can help it travel. But the other side is the pitcher is providing no power for the hitter and normally the speed is so different it can really mess with timing of the batter. It does take a good coach to use the flip as it is a situational pitch. If it is being called for strikes it is great to get a cheap strike on the batters. Since most hitters are taught to lay off it with less then two strikes. You will also get a bunch of weak pop ups with it. To me it’s best to use it early and often in the counts. If teams start sitting on fastball waiting for it then throw it outside off the plate to chase. Also use it with a long at bat. If batter keeps fouling off pitches it can get a easy pop up or throw off timing for the next pitch. It is one of the hardest pitches to master but well worth the time in the long run.

 

[radness]

I personally think the flip change is one of the best pitches in softball. That’s one of the greatest things about this sport and pitching. There are many different ways and thoughts to get batters out. Now I agree the spin is back spin which if properly squared up can help it travel. But the other side is the pitcher is providing no power for the hitter and normally the speed is so different it can really mess with timing of the batter. It does take a good coach to use the flip as it is a situational pitch. If it is being called for strikes it is great to get a cheap strike on the batters. Since most hitters are taught to lay off it with less then two strikes. You will also get a bunch of weak pop ups with it. To me it’s best to use it early and often in the counts. If teams start sitting on fastball waiting for it then throw it outside off the plate to chase. Also use it with a long at bat. If batter keeps fouling off pitches it can get a easy pop up or throw off timing for the next pitch. It is one of the hardest pitches to master but well worth the time in the long run.

While i agree change ups are great to have in the mix,
Because
batter recognizes the flip much easier change up is coming,
i see the flip)
its certainly something to
consider what other change ups can be used thats more eluesive and disguised...rather than the flip.

Can still get benefits of change ups without giving it away immediatly.

 

[uncdrew]

Hmmm...

Is spin on the ball transferred after the ball is hit?

If you hit one over the fence on a curve ball is the ball curving? I'm not entirely sure I buy that.

 

[RIZZARIJOE]

At 12u is your goal to win more games, or develop your players? It sounds like a trick question but it isn’t.
Hopefully your answer is developing your players. Teach them change ups, encourage them to hit spots, in out up down... begin to teach them drop balls... don’t encourage them to be slow pitch pitchers. You aren’t helping them

I agree with you. The dilemma is that a lot of coaches will put more emphasis on winning than teaching.

 

[RIZZARIJOE]

The problem with this approach is that your changeup may not get outs at 12, or 18 or for two months at 14U. The curve you worked on at 12U may not be a curve but it will work as a replacement for the change that season. The drop that works for you at 16U may not work for a year or a series of games, etc.

Starting at 11, my son threw 3-4 pitches of every grip 3 times a week. There's nothing exotic about pitch grips.

. I agree that there is nothing exotic about pitching grips. As a matter of fact, I am a firm believer in letting girls experiment with different grips understanding of what they are doing with their hands as well as their body. For example, a girl may have very large hands which would lend itself great to throwing the circle changeup. Other girls but smaller hands would do much better with either a flip change or a deep in the palm changeup. I guess my biggest pet peeve is the parent that is claiming that their daughter throws eleven different pitches when in fact they all look the same. Just like there is no standard grip for the pitches, there is nothing wrong with girls trying to learn different pitches. My philosophy has been learned a few pitches, master them, then move on to more difficult pitches. I believe that a girl at twelve you should have a good fastball, reliable changeup, and a very good drop. As far as curveballs, rise balls, and screwball these to take a lot of understanding of their respective bodies to effectively throw these.

My experience tells me it is much easier to teach a girl to throw the flip change than any other change. Having said that, I do not like to teach it because it is very effective at 12U and maybe 14U, but girls get absolutely lit up at the older age levels. This has me thinking – can anyone recall any Division I pictures throwing a flip change? Maybe they do, but I have not seen it.

 

[Beeg]

There isn't much you can do against a good hitter. There will always be that one or two hitters who can hit anything thrown at them. DD just moved up to 14U. DD's team would be the last of 3 teams to play against this one team with a player who was a great hitter. We were watching her smashed every single pitch to the fence when she played against the other 2 teams.

DD's coach told DD to pitch around her. DD threw curves and screwballs at her, low and outside, and this player could still hit the ball hard and get on base. DD's coach commented to DD that she did a great job, since this player was smashing every pitch with the other teams, but with DD, she could only hit singles.

Continue to focus on hitting the spot and learning changeup. DD could throw curveballs and screwballs when she was 12U, but her physical therapist once warned again throwing them with kids younger than 15 due to injuries. DD's new pitching coach teaches curveball and screwball with the same mechanism as the fastball, just with a different landing spot so that no twisting on the shoulder or elbow is needed. This will avoid injuries.

 

[Fury_Mike]

There are a couple of things here which threw me off. As sluggers said, " Also try the 2 seam fastball. I know many don’t believe in it with softball but for some girls it can really move. Same mechanics just different spin and movement" seems a little off for me. The 2 and 4 seam in baseball work by varying gravity influence and slightly slower speed or the 2 seam. But you can throw a cutting fastball by putting your middle finger closer to the index finger, applying more pressure with the index side, even curling the index finger tip into the ball, and releasing straight. The ball fades down and in. Not that is a very effective pitch because even moving 2 inches really affects the batter since down and in is the hardest pitch to hit for a player with very good mechanics (Good mechanics includes covering outside corner, being able to hit to RF).

As far as 5 or 6 pitches for a 12U player, I can't imagine it. For me it takes the focus on basic development. For me, basic solid mechanics that allow speed development is paramount. Learn to control the fastball. Then learn command, putting it where you want with accuracy. Learn the changeup! That is enough for 12U and I don't think there are enough exceptions to the rule to warrant other pitches at that age.

When accomplished at 12U or 14U then a drop should be next. I am not big on a peel-drop, and in fact I don't teach it well. So I speak in terms of a roll-over. There is a second way to throw it so it does not carry much if any risk. Girls who have keen kinetic awareness might consider learning a drop-curve as well which is a simple adjustment to the inside of the left leg, thumb and index to the thigh, pinky toward the catcher.

I teach a curve next, and a curve-rise, pulling the curve up to the left shoulder next. Easier than the rise and very effective against left-handed batters with a RH pitcher. Then I work on a true rise.

You want to see a home-run? Throw waist high curve and screwballs over the plate.

I teach that cutting fastball to all my pitchers and start teaching it after FB and change, because its a grip and pressure point pitch. Its increadibly effective at all ages once learned. I do have them rotate the ball in their hand so that the horse shoe follows their pointer finger to their thumb. I also have them take thumb pressure off at the snap which increases the drop. As they progress, they can get the pitch to rise/cut into a RH by adding thumb pressure.

 

[Schmick's Gloves]

for 12 U ball, What should I have my pitchers do when the other teams' batters are hitting my their fastballs other than throw a faster fastball?! LOL
My pitchers cannot throw anything but fastballs at this time, we are working on change ups etc.
Does it make sense for my pitchers to throw slower to the batters like an Arc pitch? I'm wondering if the other teams' batters are using the speed of our fastballs to their advantage....

Put out an add that says you're looking for new pitchers. If you're in 12U travel ball
and only throw a fastball, you're not a pitcher.