Pitching instructor won’t allow dd coach to attend lesson

[Hillhouse]

my apologies. In the first message is clearly states the HC changed something. I guess it was so long ago my Finding Nemo Dory brain forgot.

Bill

 

[guyonabuffalo]

I would've just told the PI that "Uncle Charlie" is in town and would be attending his niece's pitching lesson. Bingo bango.

 

[AVPitchingCoach]

I’m a pitching instructor and I would NEVER not allow another coach at a lesson. There have been many times when girls have come to lessons stating that their coach is wanting them to do things differently than I’ve instructed and I welcome those coaches to call me or come to a lesson so that I can explain my reasoning for the ways in which instruct. I would be leary of a PI that doesn’t allow a coach to attend a lesson.

 

[Xplode22]

One other detail to mention - when I originally ask the PI when we could schedule another lesson he said he doesn’t do weekly lessons because that makes DD too “dependent” on him. Well, I need her dependent on learning from someone and I ain’t the lady, lol. That’s another reason I want her TB coach to attend. He will be the guy to work with her the most other than me.

I like the PI. I like his personality and so does dd. He is fairly close to our house which is also nice in a large metro where I already drive too much to get to and from work. I really need dd to work with someone more often than every 3 weeks. Ugh

We have 3 teams in our org. All of our pitchers go to the same PI(dd included) They are spread out through the week. HC doesn’t go to all lessons but does try to go to some. But HC and PI communicate regularly to keep track with progress. Works well.

 

[Xplode22]

Thanks for the insight. I need my dd’s HC to attend because he will be the person primarily reinforcing the skills she learns and working with her when she can’t get to lessons. I don’t think it is too much to ask that the HC and PI be on the same page with her pitching instruction.

The flat back foot was not part of a drill. This was working her into her push off / “jumping over a ditch” as the PI told her. He also said bending over takes away power from her hips. This is exactly opposite of what her HC told her when working with her. Neither her nor I are knowledgeable enough to tell the HC why the PI is having her do certain things and I don’t think it is unreasonable for the HC to question. I am taking it as a questions lead to learning situation and I can tell he truly wants to learn to implement what is best for my dd.

I told the PI that while I respected his right to his intellectual property, I needed her HC to be able to attend because he will be the person reinforcing the skills more so than me especially since the PI is not available more often that every 3/4 weeks for lessons. If that couldn’t happen then we would need to find a different instructor.

Bill to answer your question - we are in the Virginia Beach area. So if anyone knows of a good instructor to take my dd to I would appreciate the referral.

We are playing at the beach in March

 

[Rick M]

I'm genuinely curious, do students and parents of students have to sign some form of non-disclosure agreement to be a "Tincher student"? I'm not being a smart rear, I'm asking legitimately. If not, that raises another question I'd have.....

Bill

No, there's no non-disclosure agreement for students, and I think the whole IP angle has been blown way out of proportion.

I don't think Denny Tincher makes any claims about having invented a new pitching motion. He does have his instructors prepared with a littany of drills to address specific issues, and I could see where some of those might be considered "exclusive" or intellectual property.

I did have a discussion with DD's pitching coach a few years ago, asked her why they didn't post videos on social media to drum up business. She said that they (the instructors) agree not to post how-to videos as part of their agreement to be certified Tincher instructors. That might be where some of the IP idea has come from.

 

[uncdrew]

I'm genuinely curious, do students and parents of students have to sign some form of non-disclosure agreement to be a "Tincher student"? I'm not being a smart rear, I'm asking legitimately. If not, that raises another question I'd have.....

Bill

No, we didn't sign a thing. Didn't verbally agree to a thing.

Also, I was the HC going to Tincher lessons with my DD. Not sure how anyone could prevent the scenario when the parent is the HC. Would I have to sit in the car?

 

[fastpitch91]

I’m a pitching instructor and I would NEVER not allow another coach at a lesson. There have been many times when girls have come to lessons stating that their coach is wanting them to do things differently than I’ve instructed and I welcome those coaches to call me or come to a lesson so that I can explain my reasoning for the ways in which instruct. I would be leary of a PI that doesn’t allow a coach to attend a lesson.

I teach and coach. Drives me nuts when coaches are telling poor 12 yrs olds to do the improbable. My favorite is the backdoor curve. High level kids can SOMETIMES get this pitch to work but its tough and an oops is a hit batter or a meatball. Insisting a 12/14U player throw it?

Or insisting they throw curves and screw at three different heights? Yeah if ur really good but for most hitting a nice low one is only a 50% chance. Poor kids end up hating the game because of a coach need to call 6 pitches 6 locations. A good pitcher in my experience averages 4-5 pitches per batter. How many variants do you really need to keep the, off balance. Couple up, couple down, couple slow????

 

[AVPitchingCoach]

I teach and coach. Drives me nuts when coaches are telling poor 12 yrs olds to do the improbable. My favorite is the backdoor curve. High level kids can SOMETIMES get this pitch to work but its tough and an oops is a hit batter or a meatball. Insisting a 12/14U player throw it?

Or insisting they throw curves and screw at three different heights? Yeah if ur really good but for most hitting a nice low one is only a 50% chance. Poor kids end up hating the game because of a coach need to call 6 pitches 6 locations. A good pitcher in my experience averages 4-5 pitches per batter. How many variants do you really need to keep the, off balance. Couple up, couple down, couple slow????

I totally agree! I started pitching at the age of 10 and did not take a lesson or learn to throw anything other than a fastball until I was in HS. Things were very different 40 years ago!! We didn’t play year round and there was no travel ball.
I instruct girls of all ages and abilities. I don’t teach movement pitches until they are ready. I recently had a parent come back from a tournament and told me that the HC needs her to learn how to throw a screw ball and a rise. She is 14!!! I would actually like to have communication with these HC’s. It seems to me that most of them are not interested in calling pitches in games based on the pitcher’s strengths...they want each pitcher to throw the same pitches. I don’t get it?!?!?!

 

[AVPitchingCoach]

This is what I wrote on the Facebook group "The Fastpitch Zone" a few days ago. The context of my statement was a question about "Tincher pitching" and the comments went on to rave about this "new method" of pitching, which I finally couldn't take anymore. Here was my reply:

William Hillhouse This may just be semantics but, in reading these comments it's worth saying: Mr. Tincher did NOT invent pitching. He did not RE-invent pitching. All that's happened is he's made a McDonald's like chain of his pitching teachings and spread it across the country. And GOOD FOR HIM!! Smart business move and it's got a lot of people talking about him and thinking this is all his "stuff" he's teaching. No, it's not. There's NOTHING new in softball pitching. Tincher seems to be the first to franchise pitching without the Hello Elbow mentality of 20 years ago, and some therefore believe he invented it. There are A LOT of voices screaming "don't pitch the HE way" but Mr Tincher's is one of the loudest because of the franchise. I do not know Mr. Tincher, have never met him. I think it's somewhat sad he claims Intellectual property on something he didn't invent: softball pitching. But that's another argument. I don't know Dr. Werner either but I know the Finch family is very high on her. Yet nobody talks about the elephant in the room that Jennie doesn't actually pitch (in games) with the HE method of pitching they all advocate!!! Anyway, I'm glad you all enjoy your pitching coaches and they connect with your kids. Anything that is not HE is probably a good thing but, sorry.. I can't call this the "Tincher method" since he didn't invent it.

Right on the money here!! I tell all my students and their parents that they can find the information I give them online!!...and I usually point them in your direction Bill!! I was taught Hello Elbow and to “shut the door” 30+ years ago. I was a very successful D2 pitcher with 3 national titles but, looking back and knowing what I know now, I think I could have been faster with better mechanics. I don’t teach what I was taught and I’ve actually taught myself to throw differently despite 30 years of muscle memory!!