Nope. Just observation and common sense. However, if you are willing to fund a detailed study...
Pitch counts in softball?
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Nope. Just observation and common sense. However, if you are willing to fund a detailed study...
I know that there have been prior discussions on the question “how much should I practice,” but I have heard less on the question “how much is too much” with respect to weekly workloads for pitchers at different ages. Have others found that there is an in-season sweet spot (for example, 200 to 700 pitches per week, or some different number) between the minimum amount needed to maintain effectiveness and the point where performance diminishes or symptoms of short-term overuse appear (fatigue, soreness, feeling run down, etc.)? And does the range change as a pitcher matures, and if so, by how much?
One thought that I’ve had is that for baseball pitchers, pitch counts and limits may have gained traction in part because the range of effectiveness and well-being for most athletes is fairly narrow, making it easier for coaches and league officials to agree on limits (at least in principle). For example, a standard bare minimum for baseball pitchers in high-school or college is at least one weekly bullpen of 50 to 60 pitches to maintain rhythm and release point. Healthy high-school or college pitchers might average as much as 200 to 250 pitches per week in season (for instance, one start of 160 pitches, counting all the pre-game and between inning warm-ups, plus one or two bullpens between starts of 25 to 50 pitches). But not a lot of pitchers can throw 350 pitches or more in a given week and honestly report that they feel good even in the short term—putting aside long-term effects that they may not be feeling at all.
I’d be curious if others have thoughts from their own experience about whether there is a similar range where ineffectiveness or symptoms of short-term overuse begin to appear in softball pitchers and how that range may change with age.
One thought that I’ve had is that for baseball pitchers, pitch counts and limits may have gained traction in part because the range of effectiveness and well-being for most athletes is fairly narrow, making it easier for coaches and league officials to agree on limits (at least in principle). For example, a standard bare minimum for baseball pitchers in high-school or college is at least one weekly bullpen of 50 to 60 pitches to maintain rhythm and release point. Healthy high-school or college pitchers might average as much as 200 to 250 pitches per week in season (for instance, one start of 160 pitches, counting all the pre-game and between inning warm-ups, plus one or two bullpens between starts of 25 to 50 pitches). But not a lot of pitchers can throw 350 pitches or more in a given week and honestly report that they feel good even in the short term—putting aside long-term effects that they may not be feeling at all.
I’d be curious if others have thoughts from their own experience about whether there is a similar range where ineffectiveness or symptoms of short-term overuse begin to appear in softball pitchers and how that range may change with age.
JJsqueeze
Dad, Husband....legend
I don't know at the state level but I know that all the local rec leagues that I have experience with have inning limits. Specifically I am talking about Temecula, Fallbrook and San Marcos in California. Google their respective associations if you want to look at the rules to verify, or you can take my word for it.
Like I said in my first post, I am a waffler on this as a solution as I do not really see the abuse people talk about but I am all for something to be changed to get more girls pitching and making more girls effective. So while I am not so worried about injury I am worried that there just are not enough good pitchers out there to keep the game in balance.
JJsqueeze
Dad, Husband....legend
I now Bill Hillhouse says that Folkard's mechanics are a mess, but when I look at this I see a finely tuned machine. I don't see anything that looks like it would cause injury.
I keep a pitch count. It isn't hard and fast, but I can tell when a girl is out of gas. In rec ball, it isn't that they are pitching too many. They aren't pitching enough.
I would rather see inning limits versus pitch counts if you are going to put something in. I think the process of warming up, sitting and warming up again causing more problems than throwing a few more once you are already warmed up. It's so annoying in a little league game to see pitching changes in the middle of innings all the time so you can save the kids for 2 days later.
You have seen the mechanics typical of the mens game. Now translate that type of activity to a prepubescent female who at times is challenged to chew gum and walk across a flat surface. Eliminate the leaping rule and the style typical of the mens game will very quickly be adopted in the womens/girls game. People get themselves in a wad over a 10YO kid throwing 75 pitches in a day. Now include 75 launches and landings on what is rarely a smooth surface in the pitching circle. I do not see how it would not increase injuries in young players.
- Sep 30, 2013
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Do you have any REAL idea of how many pitches get thrown in an inning? Here’s a list of the number of pitches thrown in an inning for HSV BB pitchers over 5 years and more than 150 games. The quality of pitchers goes from a 3rd round draftee to a kid who’s only appearance was throwing 18 pitches in 1 inning.
See =====> View attachment pitsninning2.pdf
Look at how many times there are 20 or more pitches in an inning. And keep in mind these are what one would think are at least somewhat physically mature kids with somewhat decent skills for the most part. Think about what it would look like if you ran something similar for pre-pubescent FPSB pitchers.
- Sep 30, 2013
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Why is it so blamed important that a rec ball pitcher pitch more innings? Rec ball should be about giving as many kids as many opportunities as possible, not creating Jennie Finch.
Infinite, really? Hyperbole much?
The only states in your link with HSBB pitch count limits are SD and VT. Who else besides them and LL have pitch count limits? As a baseball guy, you should be aware they're only enforced within their sanctions and players exceed them by playing on multiple teams/sanctions in the same week.
The article in the OP is nothing new. The sticking point is determining where limits should be placed for FP. Here's a starting point - Softball Injuries | Softball Injury Prevention & Treatment.
