Pitch Calling

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radness

Possibilities & Opportunities!
Dec 13, 2019
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To those that do not think pitch calling can be a developed skill.

Do you think batters swings are all the same and just as effective on any pitch?
 

sluggers

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 26, 2008
7,132
113
Dallas, Texas
To those that do not think pitch calling can be a developed skill.

Do you think batters swings are all the same and just as effective on any pitch?

We are talking about 2020, not 1980, 1990 or 2000. Bats today are ridiculous. The batters have much improved swing mechanics over batters 20 years ago.

So:

Good college level hitters can hit any type of pitch over the middle of the plate.

For pitches not over the middle of the plate, a good batter can hit a pitch if she knows the type and location of the pitch.
 

radness

Possibilities & Opportunities!
Dec 13, 2019
7,270
113
Yes talking about current softball.


How about anyone answer the question?
Do you think all swings are the same?
And equally effective on any pitch?


Atleast in your post you acknowledge type of pitch & location need to be recognized.

Anybody should be able to hit a pitch over the middle of the plate.
 
Last edited:
Jul 14, 2018
982
93
Maybe I'm just a really dimwitted fellow, but during my most recent pitch-calling days for DD's 12U team I kept track of every pitch on a clipboard. I also had a bench-sitter keep track of where hits and foul balls went. Against any decent hitter, there were usually 5-6 pitches in an at bat, and I was always checking my clipboard to see where we were at. Kids on the field don't have that, and they have plenty of other things to worry about. Expecting them to remember that the #6 hitter pulled two inside pitches foul in their last at-bat is not reasonable. But if I know the #6 hitter is the impatient type, I can be sure to call pitches outside and change-ups. It's not rocket science, but you can help a kid have a greater chance of success.

You can't really compare that to college and pro level baseball, because (as has been mentioned) those teams have reams of data on every batter and they go into a game with a plan. In travel softball, you get one at-bat to assess a hitter. They may hit the first pitch and you've got nothing. After their third at-bat, you'll probably never see them again.

Since I'm late to the party, one other note regarding the flat-pitch discussion. I would never advocate throwing a flat fastball over the middle of the plate, but throwing a non-moving pitch can make the breaking pitches look like they have even more break -- the same way that a changeup can make the fastball look even faster. If a hitter knows all of a pitcher's balls fade away, they can adjust to that. But you mix in one or two that don't behave that way, now the hitter is flummoxed.
 

sluggers

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 26, 2008
7,132
113
Dallas, Texas
Yes talking about current softball.


Can YOU sluggers answer the question?
Do you think all swings are the same?
And equally effective on any pitch?

Here are the answers:

I assume that by "swing" you are talking about swings while the batter is trying to hit a pitch. Yes, batters have to vary the swing plane and bat head location, body in order to hit pitch. But, on the other hand, there is a great deal of similarity between swings a batter makes.

All all swings equally effective? Obviously, if a batter swings on the wrong swing plane, the batter will miss the ball.

Note that I did not say that pitch calling couldn't be improved or learned.

What I am saying:

1) Pitch calling in TB and HS ball can be learned by any 14YOA girl. The girls are learning statistics, physics, chemistry, calculus, symphonies, Shakespeare sonnets, and French--yet, they can't learn how to pick between a fastball and a drop?

2) Pitch calling is ridiculously overrated. Batters don't hit curves, rises, drops or fastballs--they hit mistakes. If a pitcher leaves a ball over the plate, it will get tattooed. If a pitcher keeps the ball down and at the edge of the strike zone, she'll get outs. It is that simple.

3) Here is a radical idea: Almost all games are won because one team hits better, fields better and pitches better than the other. If a TB or HS coach wants to win more games, they spend more time hitting ground balls and popups rather studying the pitch calling techniques of Verlander and Kershaw.

4) Softball is a very patriarchal sport. Daddies just can't let go.
 

sluggers

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 26, 2008
7,132
113
Dallas, Texas
Kids on the field don't have that, and they have plenty of other things to worry about.

Like what? They are playing the game. They should learn to pay attention to the game.

But if I know the #6 hitter is the impatient type, I can be sure to call pitches outside and change-ups. It's not rocket science, but you can help a kid have a greater chance of success.

Again, can't a reasonably bright 12YOA learn this? Why does a 30+ YOA adult need to be doing this?
 
Feb 15, 2017
920
63
My daughter's current pitching coach (had a great one before but DD does better face to face) who has got two girls going to Bama (one a freshman, one going next year who both can get close to 70 mph) peaches speed, spin, and spot.

DD works on picking up 1 MPH every month. Pitching coach told her don't focus on radar during games.

Spin is worked on all the time and more focused on game day as if you miss a spot sometimes the spin saves you. She's had days where she's felt horrible but the spin on the drop and changeup has saved her bacon.

Spot is important to work ahead in the count and being able to adjust to the umpires strike zone and take advantage of what hitter and ump give you.

Coach told her that she's (12U) not going to throw 53 every game and have amazing late breaking spin and hit a teacup. She says you have your best (speed, spin, and spot) in one out of every four games. The other three you have to know which of the three speed, spin, and spot are working, and focus on using what is working.



Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
Feb 15, 2017
920
63
Here are the answers:

I assume that by "swing" you are talking about swings while the batter is trying to hit a pitch. Yes, batters have to vary the swing plane and bat head location, body in order to hit pitch. But, on the other hand, there is a great deal of similarity between swings a batter makes.

All all swings equally effective? Obviously, if a batter swings on the wrong swing plane, the batter will miss the ball.

Note that I did not say that pitch calling couldn't be improved or learned.

What I am saying:

1) Pitch calling in TB and HS ball can be learned by any 14YOA girl. The girls are learning statistics, physics, chemistry, calculus, symphonies, Shakespeare sonnets, and French--yet, they can't learn how to pick between a fastball and a drop?

2) Pitch calling is ridiculously overrated. Batters don't hit curves, rises, drops or fastballs--they hit mistakes. If a pitcher leaves a ball over the plate, it will get tattooed. If a pitcher keeps the ball down and at the edge of the strike zone, she'll get outs. It is that simple.

3) Here is a radical idea: Almost all games are won because one team hits better, fields better and pitches better than the other. If a TB or HS coach wants to win more games, they spend more time hitting ground balls and popups rather studying the pitch calling techniques of Verlander and Kershaw.

4) Softball is a very patriarchal sport. Daddies just can't let go.
My DD is very wise beyond her years. She guested and was playing up 14u and gave up her first dinger. I wondered how she would react. After the game I asked her what she thought. She told me well I left it belt high in the middle of the plate she had better hit it out.

She said if it were her best pitch and got hit out then she would have been worried.

I think she will be good at learning to call her own pitches.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
Feb 17, 2014
7,152
113
Orlando, FL
The best plan in the world is only as good as your ability to execute.
My DD is very wise beyond her years. She guested and was playing up 14u and gave up her first dinger. I wondered how she would react. After the game I asked her what she thought. She told me well I left it belt high in the middle of the plate she had better hit it out.

She said if it were her best pitch and got hit out then she would have been worried.

I think she will be good at learning to call her own pitches.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Definitely wise beyond her years.
 
Aug 21, 2008
2,359
113
I think this is the first time I have ventured off the "Pitching" thread ever. lol Not sure I'll see replies unless someone quotes me or tags me.

First, I was amazed when I joined the college ranks (mid-major D1 school) last year how little the pitchers/catchers knew about pitch calling and selection. It's absolutely pathetic that 12U kids have to have pitches called for them instead of learning the art and craft themselves. We are turning kids into robots who have no idea what to look for, what to do, except look at the coach or those ridiculous wrist bands. You teach them in practices and let them try to execute in games, pure and simple. ABSOLUTELY discuss pitching, sequencing, hitters, etc. between innings but my goodness lets teach the game to the kids!!! PREACH at practices to keep the ball low (dropballs) when you have a 1 run lead after in the 6 and 7th inning so that a fly ball doesn't tie the game!! And they have to learn the consequences of the late inning HR on a riseball that ties or loses the game because they didn't follow the percentages strategy of keeping the ball low.

I was amazed at how D1 college kids didn't understand, what I thought were fundamentals of pitching.

When I called pitches, I tried to channel myself into the pitcher. "What would I throw in this situation?" Then would pray we'd execute. Not to brag but the team went from 13 wins the year before to 30, lowest ERA in conference, my pitcher won the conference Player/Year award, and having been predicted 8-8 in conference: we ended 3rd narrowly missing 2nd place. This was achieved by simply playing percentages: drop balls late in games, jamming slappers to make them pull the ball, no fly balls with runner's on 3rd, multiple change ups in a row, etc.

Bill
 

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