Pinch Runner for a substitution???

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May 7, 2015
842
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SoCal
P8 is substituted for her at bat with P16. P16 gets a single and has a pinch runner (P33) is substituted for P16. Question: Is this legal and if so, I would assume that all three players occupy the same batting order position with the same one re-entry??

P33 and P16 were not in the line up. So since pinch runner is simply a substitute, is the substitution for a substitution legal?
 
Last edited:
Nov 18, 2015
1,585
113
To possibly clarify what canyonjoe posted - I don't think P/C matters if it's a substitution (other than reporting requirements). It would matter if it was a courtesy runner, but I believe the original scenario was regarding a straight substitution.
 
May 7, 2015
842
93
SoCal
To possibly clarify what canyonjoe posted - I don't think P/C matters if it's a substitution (other than reporting requirements). It would matter if it was a courtesy runner, but I believe the original scenario was regarding a straight substitution.
Since there is no such thing as a pinch runner, it is a simple substitution... I thought it was a not legal to have a substitute for a substitute, aka 3 names in the same batting order of the score book.

With pinch runner rules in baseball, the pinch runner for the substitute seems to be ok.

FWIW, I'm doing the official book for DD's team and this came up this weekend. There's not a lot of clarity in the USA rulebook.

This was not a courtesy runner
 
Oct 24, 2010
308
28
Substitutes are allowed for substitutes and they are tied to the starter's slot in the batting order.
Starters have one re-entry if it has not been previously used. Substitutes may re-enter if they have re-entry rights, i.e, if it's allowed by code and has not been used (e.g. USA, NFHS.)
 
Jun 11, 2013
2,619
113
To possibly clarify what canyonjoe posted - I don't think P/C matters if it's a substitution (other than reporting requirements). It would matter if it was a courtesy runner, but I believe the original scenario was regarding a straight substitution.
Since you PH for the P(or C) they become the P until you sub them out which would allow you to courtesy run a Sub who you could later put in the game at another position in the lineup if you choose to do that.
 
Jun 6, 2016
2,714
113
Chicago
Since there is no such thing as a pinch runner, it is a simple substitution... I thought it was a not legal to have a substitute for a substitute, aka 3 names in the same batting order of the score book.

With pinch runner rules in baseball, the pinch runner for the substitute seems to be ok.

FWIW, I'm doing the official book for DD's team and this came up this weekend. There's not a lot of clarity in the USA rulebook.

This was not a courtesy runner

What do you mean there is no such thing as a pinch runner? It's the actual defined name of a position. "Pinch runner" appears in the (NFHS) rules book. It is different from a courtesy runner.

You can have 15 subs in the same lineup spot if you want. There's no limitation. They're all just confined to that spot in the order.
 
Jun 6, 2016
2,714
113
Chicago
Since you PH for the P(or C) they become the P until you sub them out which would allow you to courtesy run a Sub who you could later put in the game at another position in the lineup if you choose to do that.

This isn't correct (NFHS, at least).

Technically, a pinch hitter is listed as "PH" until they actually take a position on the field. If they never do, for example, you don't list "P" by their name. Check any box score to verify that.

The person who is the P or C is the last person to play the position, so a pinch hitter for either spot does not acquire courtesy runner privileges until they actually play the position in the field. The person listed as the P/C on the lineup card in the top of the first gets the courtesy though.
 
Feb 13, 2021
880
93
MI
Since you PH for the P(or C) they become the P until you sub them out which would allow you to courtesy run a Sub who you could later put in the game at another position in the lineup if you choose to do that.
Like JD said above. You may only CR for the P or C of record (that is, the last player to have physically pitched or caught, with the 1st inning exception for the visiting team). So if you PH for the pitcher, that substitute may NOT be CRed for but MAY be PRed for (burning a sub in the process). In addition, just in case you are one of those sneaky coaches who try to find loopholes in the rules, we have you covered. If you tried to re-enter your P once that stud hitter got on base to try to then turn around and CR for HER, you are out of luck; a P or C must be on base only due to the actions during her own AB if you are going to CR for her.
 

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