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Outlaw video help

Cannonball

Ex "Expert"
Feb 25, 2009
4,344
113
The direction of her backswing is a big problem and needs to be fixed as it is affecting the entire sequence. She takes the ball behind her back in anticipation of a glove side lean during the circle progression. When that happens the forward arm swing cannot move directly toward the the target line. The forward swing has to move outward to clear her body because it starts from behind her back. This starts a circle direction that is fatally flawed.

When the forward swing moves outward instead of forward, the direction of the complete circle is now outward, then up and over her head, and down again behind her back. Moving down the circle behind her back causes 2 problems. The first is a scap retraction down the back of the circle to allow the direction and momentum to continue. This can cause injury and soreness in the upper scap area on the throwing side of the upper back. The second is inhibition of the speed of the arm circle because it is off line and lands too far behind her back approaching release.

So, in order to fix the forward circle direction, you must fix the backswing direction. The backswing needs to go straight back, allowing the forward swing to progress unimpeded in the direction of the target. She can practice by making sure the upswing moves in front of the shoulder socket vs. out away from it. She cannot accomplish this correct upswing direction from behind her back so she has to adjust her backswing direction.

Fixing this flaw will increase arm circle speed and reduce soreness and potential injury due to the flawed circle.

View attachment 16461

Cheers!
A Board Member sighting! Made my day!
 
Aug 21, 2008
1,634
113
I am also interested in any advise or input on switching to no back swing. Is this any easy switch, and do they initially lose velocity? We have about a month to make this change before the tournaments start up again.

My DD has an inside back swing as well but its a different variation where she turns her shoulders a bit and then turns them back to get things on line again at about 300, but I believe there is also a loss in efficiency especially in her drive out in doing this.
Going from a backswing to no backswing is one of the hardest things to do in pitching. Most girls that try removing the backswing will immediately thrust their hand (with the ball) downward, instead of swinging it back. This is because she has muscle memory to try locking her elbow. Since they can't lock their elbow with the backswing anymore, the only way to do it is by pushing the arm and ball down before the push forward. Locking the elbow can and does lead (in many cases) to soreness in the FRONT of the shoulder. This causes problem #2: she feels like she "loses speed" without the backswing. Truth is, she will ultimately throw harder when she gets the timing and mechanics of it right but initially she'll feel "slower" and probably worry about that.

I think there should be a "backswing" sticky on this board because this question comes up A LOT about whether or not to do it. Many say it's simply a choice and it doesn't matter. And, to a degree they are right. But there is POTENTIAL for more bad things to come from a backswing than without it. LONG TERM, there are a lot more advantages of not doing it, especially as the game continues to progress as it has. The last 10 years or so has been a huge boom for advancement in softball gamesmanship things such as picking and reading pitchers. When I threw BP to the college kids, I knew they'd struggle with the movement pitches until they adjusted. But what they all said they had the hardest time with, was that I didn't swing my hand back so they could pull focus on the ball from the start of the wind up. This left them to try picking up the ball solely at the release, which was something the vast majority wasn't used to.

Bill
 
Jan 17, 2020
43
8
Going from a backswing to no backswing is one of the hardest things to do in pitching. Most girls that try removing the backswing will immediately thrust their hand (with the ball) downward, instead of swinging it back. This is because she has muscle memory to try locking her elbow. Since they can't lock their elbow with the backswing anymore, the only way to do it is by pushing the arm and ball down before the push forward. Locking the elbow can and does lead (in many cases) to soreness in the FRONT of the shoulder. This causes problem #2: she feels like she "loses speed" without the backswing. Truth is, she will ultimately throw harder when she gets the timing and mechanics of it right but initially she'll feel "slower" and probably worry about that.

I think there should be a "backswing" sticky on this board because this question comes up A LOT about whether or not to do it. Many say it's simply a choice and it doesn't matter. And, to a degree they are right. But there is POTENTIAL for more bad things to come from a backswing than without it. LONG TERM, there are a lot more advantages of not doing it, especially as the game continues to progress as it has. The last 10 years or so has been a huge boom for advancement in softball gamesmanship things such as picking and reading pitchers. When I threw BP to the college kids, I knew they'd struggle with the movement pitches until they adjusted. But what they all said they had the hardest time with, was that I didn't swing my hand back so they could pull focus on the ball from the start of the wind up. This left them to try picking up the ball solely at the release, which was something the vast majority wasn't used to.

Bill

Would there be any benefit from using the new start back rule with my DD switching to no backswing? She wanted to try incorporating both at same time.
 
May 5, 2019
46
8
Bill is completely correct with this information. My daughter an 11 year old pitcher throwing in the low 50's this past fall had a tendency during her back swing wind up to go slightly behind her back taking her arm circle off center. As a result she actually began striking her hip, which caused bruising and at times it caused her to not go as hard forward because of the subconscious fear of striking herself. Starting in early January we/she decided to come straight out of the glove, giving 2-3 months of transition to get it straight. In the beginning (first couple of weeks) it was a bit of a hot mess and I think the switch combined with 2 months of being "shut down" both contributed to this. Fast forward to present and she has all of the same control and speed as before and has not had one instance of striking herself in the hip area. From catching/watching her nothing really changes on the delivery of the pitch, the biggest change is timing. She needed to find something to get herself into a cadence or rhythm prior to launching forward. For a pitcher who has thrown 1.000's of pitches with a back swing, taking away this rhythmic pattern can be devastating until they find a new timing technique. My personal advice to all of those making the consideration would be to 1) lots of dry runs with no ball until they find a good timing technique. 2) throw into a net only using this new technique, and finally 3) you will need lots of time and patience until it clicks and if you do not have neither of those things you will not be successful. As one poster asked is a month enough time, I would go with no, as for the other poster who asked about the new start with the rear foot off the rubber, your daughter should stride as far as she was when she was back swinging so yes incorporate this, just understand all of this has to come together before you can expect consistency at the plate...
 
Jan 17, 2020
43
8
DD is getting comfortable with not using a backswing - going good. One thing I thought this would correct is the direction of her stride. She is still striding to the left side of the box. Is there any advantage for a LHP to stride to the left side of the box? Increased whip by having to go across her body more? See that in Abbott's pitching.
 
Aug 20, 2017
1,001
83
DD is getting comfortable with not using a backswing - going good. One thing I thought this would correct is the direction of her stride. She is still striding to the left side of the box. Is there any advantage for a LHP to stride to the left side of the box? Increased whip by having to go across her body more? See that in Abbott's pitching.
I think striding slightly across is ok. I’ve found that it tends to help with posture some (less butt out) which helps staying tight to body at release.
 
Jan 13, 2020
1,217
113
First thing I noticed is that her right hip is falling back in order to drag the left foot across leaving her left knee, hips and shoulders pointed to a left-handed hitter rather than the catcher. It may be an optical illusion, but I think her arm may be going straight back.

However her stride is to the left-handed hitter causing the stress of having to get around her body.

Noticed she is swimming with the right hand caused by the back of the glove pointing towards 3rd base line. If she keeps the palm of the glove down, it should alleviate most of the swim.

Please let me know if I am in error on any of this. I’m still a student myself.
 
Jan 17, 2020
43
8
Thanks for the info. Not sure myself. DD is still working on arm circle. I'm just trying to figure out what is too far when going across. She has some work to do to get back to slightly across. Thanks and Happy Easter.
 
Jan 13, 2020
1,217
113
Thanks for the info. Not sure myself. DD is still working on arm circle. I'm just trying to figure out what is too far when going across. She has some work to do to get back to slightly across. Thanks and Happy Easter.
Just saw this in the Brush Inteference thead. Hope it helps.

– How to throw like Yukiko Ueno
 
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