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Apr 11, 2015
877
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Lol. The muscles groups used with HI use half the body and create false forces in the swing imo. Such as HIp coil and turn the barrel. His 2 main engines are used incorrectly.

I want the core in charge of the first engine not the back leg. I want the hands to whip the barrel not turn behind me. That’s it in a nutshell.
W=w, nothing personal, but I think you're too hung up on terminology, and their origin, more so than the actual concepts.

As long as you're getting your hitter(s) to get the barrel into the zone from behind or early...whether you tell them that that's a "whip" or a "turn" of the barrel is inconsequential...IMO.

Likewise, whether you say "back leg" as in femur or femoral head", or "core/torso" which includes the rear hip (femoral head being part of it) as defined by FFS/Dixon that seems to be accepted by the "core" group...they're really both the same thing.

Realistically, the "core" can't be "in charge" of the launch w/o the rear leg planted firmly in/against the ground. If it's not, you get this....
Gt11lrJ.gif

....and not a way to swing a bat effectively.
 
May 12, 2016
4,338
113
Top and bottom hand are applying opposite direction forces into (perpendicular) the handle of the bat to create a moment/torque.

I've tried this pattar and most likely I am doing it wrong, but the amount momentum/torque I can apply with just hands is very minimal and unimpressive. Asking my 14 DD to do this will be even less impressive. JMHO, I think when teaching our DD's it makes more sense to focus on the larger muscles with the hands assisting/directing. I am not against TTB, but the idea of using the hands to turn it seems awkward to me, and I have watched many pro hitters talk about hitting, and you don't see the term TTB mentioned very much. I believe we are once again focusing on the effect, more than the cause. I do believe the hands assist, that's it, and that's why I find some videos by TM confusing because he focuses only on how the hands TTB.
 
Oct 13, 2014
5,471
113
South Cali
W=w, nothing personal, but I think you're too hung up on terminology, and their origin, more so than the actual concepts.

As long as you're getting your hitter(s) to get the barrel into the zone from behind or early...whether you tell them that that's a "whip" or a "turn" of the barrel is inconsequential...IMO.

Likewise, whether you say "back leg" as in femur or femoral head", or "core/torso" which includes the rear hip (femoral head being part of it) as defined by FFS/Dixon that seems to be accepted by the "core" group...they're really both the same thing.

Realistically, the "core" can't be "in charge" of the launch w/o the rear leg planted firmly in/against the ground. If it's not, you get this....
Gt11lrJ.gif

....and not a way to swing a bat effectively.

Yes. In the context of this discussion. I am a tad bit hung up on terms. Just for the simple fact that we all see too many posters taking these ‘terms’ too literally. So with that in mind I refrain from using terms that some know and others don’t.

As far as TMs stuff. Have I falsified any of his beliefs? I don’t think so. He wants the back leg in charge. I want the ENTIRE core involved. Especially the front side oblique during foot down.

I solely do this so newer members will have an inkling of what you or I or whoever might mean when we say something.

I must say it is getting better. Swings we see lately have not been totally upside down or backwards.

As tangible feels go. It feels like a whip or throw more than a turn. And should be taught as such. Because that’s what is happening. Right?

Unless MAYBE there are some who truly believe TMs stuff is the MLB mantra and push it as such. If that is so. I will try to not let newer members get caught up in the trash and get lost. Or at least try to interpret what is truly meant. I will put on my cowl and cape when needed. LOL.
 
Jun 8, 2016
16,118
113
I've tried this pattar and most likely I am doing it wrong, but the amount momentum/torque I can apply with just hands is very minimal and unimpressive. Asking my 14 DD to do this will be even less impressive. JMHO, I think when teaching our DD's it makes more sense to focus on the larger muscles with the hands assisting/directing. I am not against TTB, but the idea of using the hands to turn it seems awkward to me, and I have watched many pro hitters talk about hitting, and you don't see the term TTB mentioned very much. I believe we are once again focusing on the effect, more than the cause. I do believe the hands assist, that's it, and that's why I find some videos by TM confusing because he focuses only on how the hands TTB.
Not saying the force is generated by the hands only that it is applied by the hands since that is what is holding the bat. Forearms would probably be the main driver as Buttermaker mentioned.
 
Jul 16, 2013
4,659
113
Pennsylvania
Yes. In the context of this discussion. I am a tad bit hung up on terms. Just for the simple fact that we all see too many posters taking these ‘terms’ too literally. So with that in mind I refrain from using terms that some know and others don’t.

As far as TMs stuff. Have I falsified any of his beliefs? I don’t think so. He wants the back leg in charge. I want the ENTIRE core involved. Especially the front side oblique during foot down.

I solely do this so newer members will have an inkling of what you or I or whoever might mean when we say something.

I must say it is getting better. Swings we see lately have not been totally upside down or backwards.

As tangible feels go. It feels like a whip or throw more than a turn. And should be taught as such. Because that’s what is happening. Right?

Unless MAYBE there are some who truly believe TMs stuff is the MLB mantra and push it as such. If that is so. I will try to not let newer members get caught up in the trash and get lost. Or at least try to interpret what is truly meant. I will put on my cowl and cape when needed. LOL.

I have seen coaches in my area get way too literal with "hands to the ball", "knob to the ball", "squish the bug", and any number of other phrases. I will not deny that some people do the same with TTB as well. But it isn't in the terms. It's in their understanding and application.
 
May 12, 2016
4,338
113
giphy.gif


Is he turning the barrel or is the bigger muscles pulling on the arm/bat and hands?
Larger muscles IMO.. but it appears like the hands are TTB because that's what's connect with the barrel. I believe the hands assist, but can also be detrimental to TTB. That's why I believe loose grip and loose wrists and let the bigger muscles do the work. The hands/forearms play a part, but the bigger muscles are the main source.

Again one of TM's cues has been a major influence on my DD's swing, "work the scap towards the rear back pocket". This has helped my daughter understand how to engage the back and core, how to pull the bat instead of push. She's getting on plane much sooner without thinking about the hands at all. However, when she get's tight (death grip), the bat becomes dead, it no longer whips in the way it should.

Use the bigger muscles and allow the hands to assist.... not TTB with the hands/forearms and the body will react appropriately. TOO much focus on hands turning the barrel, IMO.
 

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