Metrics for determining piching volume progression throughout high school?

[MadBandit22]

Keeping in mind, I was just like your DD's when I was in high school... I was a softball pitcher. While I didn't pitch for my High School team (although looking back, I could've sued and joined the team!!!) I did pitch nearly every single day. One league played Mon and Wed nights, the other Tue and Thur. Then, I'd play tournaments on weekends too. And if you saw me in my teens, I was a skinny rail of a kid... so I wouldn't really buy the argument of having more "muscle" or even more body mass than the girls who pitched for the high school team. I also threw BP to them, which helped my grades as the coach was also my math teacher. Moreover, I got several dates in HS by throwing BP as no other guys in the school could help a girl hit a riseball. And if she broke up with me? Bang, Drop ball right in the ribs at the next practice!!!!!!! (Always throw dropballs to the ribs, if you throw at the head they can duck. At the feet, they can jump. There's now where to turn when it's at the ribs!!!!! And a dropball shows it was on purpose!!!!!). "Sorry Missy, you should've gone to the movies with me on Saturday!!!!!"

Anyway, my point is, the thought of overuse never entered my mind, or my father's. I'm not suggesting anyone is doing wrong by being concerned about your kid, PLEASE don't misunderstand me. But I do think kids are a lot stronger than we sometimes think or give credit for.

Bill

It does seem like baseball takes pitch counts much more seriously. I’m guessing the overhand motion involves the elbow more resulting in all this Tommy John surgery that seems common place these days.

The windmill motion seems to put greater stress on a larger area the shoulder. I guess that’s why it’s considered a more natural movement and can be performed much more often.

Everything in moderation is a good way to go. On another recent thread here it says college coaches are complaining that pitchers are all used up by the time they get to college.

So either there is some truth to overuse syndrome or college coaches just want the option of using and abusing their recruits as they see fit.

With my DD she has a “young arm” as I don’t let her pitch too often. I think some girls peak too soon and once you peak there is only one direction left to go.

I believe my DD is still very much on the upswing and has pitched much less than other girls her age. I want her to reach her full potential in college not HS.

We recently started with basically our 1st consistent pitching coach. She was a very good D-1 pitcher and is in our State athletic HOF.

I asked her how much DD should be throwing and she stated her best students throw 2-5 times a week consistently without reminders to do so.

I’d be tickled with a lesson and two sessions on her own. I have many interests but I can honestly say there is not one I would enjoy doing 7 days a week.

I think it boils down to you have to know your body and what feels right. Hopefully there is some good coaching around to support that.

 

[cnardone]

Everything in moderation is a good way to go. On another recent thread here it says college coaches are complaining that pitchers are all used up by the time they get to college.

So either there is some truth to overuse syndrome or college coaches just want the option of using and abusing their recruits as they see fit.

I wonder if that coach meant more emotionally than physically.

 

[Hillhouse]

It's kind of a shame that we always define pitching "lessons" with a catcher, ball, glove, pitching rubber, etc. And so little is done to help prepare pitchers mentally, understanding situations, pitch selection, etc.

When I was at the college last year, I would frequently do video lessons where we'd go watch a game on YouTube and discuss pitch selection and situational pitching. Even though I was going to be "calling pitches", I felt it important for the pitchers (and catchers) to get an understanding of what to look for, a feel for the situation, and get on the same page with what to expect. This way, if I wasn't there, they wouldn't be completely lost. As I've said before, I was amazed at what our pitchers/catchers DIDN'T know about pitch selection. Come to find out, they've had every movement and pitch of their life controlled for them since 12U softball so they never learned to hone instincts or think for themselves. Moreover, their "coaches" would rarely explain why pitches were called in certain situations: trying not to let the hitter hit behind the runner, looking for ground balls with runner's on 3rd under 2 outs, etc.

Watching part of a game, discussing the situations, what's your best percentage pitch, etc. is every bit as much of a lesson as working to fix your foot drag or something. Of course, this is only true if your coach who's calling pitches also truly understands situational pitching. In a game of pool, you're not only trying to sink the ball but also trying to set up your next shot in the process. Not every pitch is going to garner an out but it can help set up the next pitch that will. Those are important lessons to learn too.
Bill

 

[uncdrew]

It’s tough for coaches to find time to teach those things - so many demands on their time. As a former baseball player and big fan of the game, I love bonding with my kids by discussing strategy. For pitching, defense and offense. And yes, I know it will make them better players.

 

[MadBandit22]

My un

I wonder if that coach meant more emotionally than physically.

My understanding was physically used too much. Which of course could lead to emotional issues if injuries or a drop in effectiveness resulted.

 

[MadBandit22]

It's kind of a shame that we always define pitching "lessons" with a catcher, ball, glove, pitching rubber, etc. And so little is done to help prepare pitchers mentally, understanding situations, pitch selection, etc.

When I was at the college last year, I would frequently do video lessons where we'd go watch a game on YouTube and discuss pitch selection and situational pitching. Even though I was going to be "calling pitches", I felt it important for the pitchers (and catchers) to get an understanding of what to look for, a feel for the situation, and get on the same page with what to expect. This way, if I wasn't there, they wouldn't be completely lost. As I've said before, I was amazed at what our pitchers/catchers DIDN'T know about pitch selection. Come to find out, they've had every movement and pitch of their life controlled for them since 12U softball so they never learned to hone instincts or think for themselves. Moreover, their "coaches" would rarely explain why pitches were called in certain situations: trying not to let the hitter hit behind the runner, looking for ground balls with runner's on 3rd under 2 outs, etc.

Watching part of a game, discussing the situations, what's your best percentage pitch, etc. is every bit as much of a lesson as working to fix your foot drag or something. Of course, this is only true if your coach who's calling pitches also truly understands situational pitching. In a game of pool, you're not only trying to sink the ball but also trying to set up your next shot in the process. Not every pitch is going to garner an out but it can help set up the next pitch that will. Those are important lessons to learn too.
Bill

There is a lot to be said

It's kind of a shame that we always define pitching "lessons" with a catcher, ball, glove, pitching rubber, etc. And so little is done to help prepare pitchers mentally, understanding situations, pitch selection, etc.

When I was at the college last year, I would frequently do video lessons where we'd go watch a game on YouTube and discuss pitch selection and situational pitching. Even though I was going to be "calling pitches", I felt it important for the pitchers (and catchers) to get an understanding of what to look for, a feel for the situation, and get on the same page with what to expect. This way, if I wasn't there, they wouldn't be completely lost. As I've said before, I was amazed at what our pitchers/catchers DIDN'T know about pitch selection. Come to find out, they've had every movement and pitch of their life controlled for them since 12U softball so they never learned to hone instincts or think for themselves. Moreover, their "coaches" would rarely explain why pitches were called in certain situations: trying not to let the hitter hit behind the runner, looking for ground balls with runner's on 3rd under 2 outs, etc.

Watching part of a game, discussing the situations, what's your best percentage pitch, etc. is every bit as much of a lesson as working to fix your foot drag or something. Of course, this is only true if your coach who's calling pitches also truly understands situational pitching. In a game of pool, you're not only trying to sink the ball but also trying to set up your next shot in the process. Not every pitch is going to garner an out but it can help set up the next pitch that will. Those are important lessons to learn too.
Bill

There is a lot to be said for “being a student of the game” Players should know who came before them and who the great players/coaches are/were.

Players should be taught early on about situational awareness. Especially pitching. They need to be taught how to set-up hitters and why this pitch is a better choice than that pitch in this count/situation.

I would also like to see more information gathering on competition as well. You want to know your opponents tendencies and what to expect from their pitchers/hitters. Like you mentioned film study in higher levels of play.

I don’t like pitchers being micro managed. Have a game plan in place and let the pitcher/catcher battery execute the plan. Coach should step in when the plan isn’t working/being executed properly.

 

[Hillhouse]

It’s tough for coaches to find time to teach those things - so many demands on their time. As a former baseball player and big fan of the game, I love bonding with my kids by discussing strategy. For pitching, defense and offense. And yes, I know it will make them better players.

I guess that's my point Drew. MAKE THE TIME. Make "theory" part of the lesson plan and pitching curriculum. Could be especially valuable during season when she might need a "night off" from pitching but can still use the time to learn ABOUT pitching. Talk about what's worked against various hitters: Slappers, power hitters, etc. and what hasn't, along with how to adjust the game plan and thinking.

I totally get it, most people equate a pitching lesson with throwing a ball and getting better at the physical part. And it may seem like a 'waste of money' to some if the entire lesson is talking, watching video, etc. but I'm telling you it's an invaluable piece of turning a thrower into a pitcher. Maybe it's wishful thinking but, I do wish it'd happen more. Just sayin'.

Bill

 

[BlaineAB]

It does seem like baseball takes pitch counts much more seriously. I’m guessing the overhand motion involves the elbow more resulting in all this Tommy John surgery that seems common place these days.

The windmill motion seems to put greater stress on a larger area the shoulder. I guess that’s why it’s considered a more natural movement and can be performed much more often.

Everything in moderation is a good way to go. On another recent thread here it says college coaches are complaining that pitchers are all used up by the time they get to college.

So either there is some truth to overuse syndrome or college coaches just want the option of using and abusing their recruits as they see fit.

With my DD she has a “young arm” as I don’t let her pitch too often. I think some girls peak too soon and once you peak there is only one direction left to go.

I believe my DD is still very much on the upswing and has pitched much less than other girls her age. I want her to reach her full potential in college not HS.

We recently started with basically our 1st consistent pitching coach. She was a very good D-1 pitcher and is in our State athletic HOF.

I asked her how much DD should be throwing and she stated her best students throw 2-5 times a week consistently without reminders to do so.

I’d be tickled with a lesson and two sessions on her own. I have many interests but I can honestly say there is not one I would enjoy doing 7 days a week.

I think it boils down to you have to know your body and what feels right. Hopefully there is some good coaching around to support that.

The hard part is getting all involved on the same page, especially if it may entail sacrificing short-term glory for long-term health and development.

College coaches, especially those with uber elite programs, chase the arms that dominate in high school/travel.

The same thing happens in track and field, the college coaches sign the girls that ran fast in high school. Interestingly, those kids often aren't the best performers in college.

 

[uncdrew]

I guess that's my point Drew. MAKE THE TIME. Make "theory" part of the lesson plan and pitching curriculum. Could be especially valuable during season when she might need a "night off" from pitching but can still use the time to learn ABOUT pitching. Talk about what's worked against various hitters: Slappers, power hitters, etc. and what hasn't, along with how to adjust the game plan and thinking.

I totally get it, most people equate a pitching lesson with throwing a ball and getting better at the physical part. And it may seem like a 'waste of money' to some if the entire lesson is talking, watching video, etc. but I'm telling you it's an invaluable piece of turning a thrower into a pitcher. Maybe it's wishful thinking but, I do wish it'd happen more. Just sayin'.

Bill

I'm on the same page. So much to teach these girls, and lots of it is mental.

 

[uncdrew]

My DD has a broken ankle so we missed the first tournament, multiple practices and lessons, and we're both jonesing to get back on the dirt.