Metrics for determining piching volume progression throughout high school?

[BlaineAB]

I recently watched a presentation from a D1 college head coach and she touched on the large percentage of freshmen pitchers starting their college experience having pitched too much in high school & travel ball. Interestingly, she did not offer up any potential remedies.

So, what is the extent of the problem?
I don't know how that can be measured, but anecdotally I saw talented freshmen pitchers rack up 150+ inning totals before the travel season even started.

In running, if you have a freshman and a senior that can run similar times, more often than not the frosh does not run the same amount of volume as the senior. Seems obvious as to why.
But I don't see that same type of thing in progressing pitching volume.

More is not always better, but I guess I'm in the minority with that opinion.

Off the soapbox.

 

[grmerrill]

Without an explanation of what "having pitched too much in high school & travel ball means" this has no value. If she is referencing injuries, over usage, too high of expectations, than you can try to understand what she is saying.

And why would you penalize a freshman that in their development is further along than the senior at the same age? If both run the same time, don't slow their growth just because someone else has been taking up space for a longer period of time.

Earn your spot, regardless of freshman or senior.

 

[marriard]

I recently watched a presentation from a D1 college head coach and she touched on the large percentage of freshmen pitchers starting their college experience having pitched too much in high school & travel ball. Interestingly, she did not offer up any potential remedies.

This is the standard college coach whine: "Someone used up my pitcher/player physically and/or mentally before I could. I wanted to do that"

That is what the recruiting circuit does - and will continue to do. The whole "they play too much" is what it is because that is the system they put in place, but don't want to address because most of it is just platitudes, repeating things that make no sense (the garbage multi-sport athlete lie for example) and more whining.

 

[diamond14]

"(the garbage multi-sport athelte lie for exampel) "

???

 

[sluggers]

..., but don't want to address because most of it is just platitudes, repeating things that make no sense (the garbage multi-sport athelte lie for exampel) and more whining.

Come on, tell us how you really feel.

 

[marriard]

"(the garbage multi-sport athelte lie for exampel) "
???

This is a flat out lie; there are several factors they always ignore:

- Many of the examples used are football players. Football still isn't played as year-round as other sports - the toll on the body is too much. So there still is an offseason to play another sport.
- Most of the other examples are elite athletes. They can compete with the 100% X sport athlete because they can lean on their athletism to make up for skill gaps. I was a basketball player and I concentrated on that - but I could play pretty much anything at a reasonable level without practice. Elite athletes can be casual players of other sports and have success.
- The recruiting calendar and team make up demands year-round commitment or you will be replaced. Again if you are elite you maybe get more leeway, but the reality is the vast majority of recruited softball players concentrated on softball.
- The non-elite multi-sports don't play their second sport at an elite level. You get a lot of players from small schools that played 5 sports in high school - but they were needed to make up numbers or didn't play at a high level or didn't play in some cases.
- The injury things is a bit of a weird one because everyone says it, but the science behind it is very weak. Sports are vastly different so how much is too much for one sport? No one knows. You pitch a lot you are more likely to hurt a shoulder - well yeah you have more opportunity to do so so how much is that a factor versus the actual sport. You play volleyball you are more likely to twist an ankle... and so on...

And lastly, they can tell you NOT to specialize - but they can't tell you where the limit is or how you can keep up with those that do. They can't say what point in a sport DOES the specialist equal athlete no longer have the advantage over the multi-sport athlete?

I don't see cause and effect at the moment. I may be wrong, but I see way too many glaring issues.

Yes, college coaches say they want multi-sport athletes but in reality, what they are really saying is they want elite athletes.

 

[marriard]

Come on, tell us how you really feel.

You really don't want that. This is already toned way down.

Seriously I remember one college coach whining about how pitchers were coming into her program injured or overused. But she had pitched one girl 90% of the innings for the season despite having 4 healthy pitchers on her roster. And from memory that one pitcher threw all 4 games in a regional and something like 700+ pitches or something stupid like that over three days (I believe they went L, W, W, L with some extra innings).

 

[BlaineAB]

Without an explanation of what "having pitched too much in high school & travel ball means" this has no value. If she is referencing injuries, over usage, too high of expectations, than you can try to understand what she is saying.

And why would you penalize a freshman that in their development is further along than the senior at the same age? If both run the same time, don't slow their growth just because someone else has been taking up space for a longer period of time.

Earn your spot, regardless of freshman or senior.

Well, the running comparison I was getting at was training volume comparison, not suggesting that the freshman runner didn't compete. In track, both could compete in the event, say the mile, but they're training volume could be different.

Yes, the weekday training volume a freshman pitcher throws can be less than a senior, but the only way you could limit a freshman's competitive pitch total is not play them in games. Don't really see a down side to that.
Do you really need to pitch a talented freshman against a team that has no chance of hitting her, just so she can track up impressive K totals? That's assuming you have other pitchers to put in instead.

 

[sluggers]

As to pitching volume, there are several factors:

a) HS coaches and most TB coaches are blind to overuse injuries. They repeat the same old, tired "softball pitching is a natural motion" mantra.

b) It is very rare to have two good HS pitchers on the same team. One pitcher is usually much more talented than the other. So, the coach wants to win games, and so throws the more talented pitcher all the time.

c) There is nothing to stop coaches from over-pitching kids other than parents from pitching the kid's arm off.

d) Pitchers want to pitch. They love to pitch. They would do it every day, all day if they could.

 

[sluggers]

Do you really need to pitch a talented freshman against a team that has no chance of hitting her, just so she can track up impressive K totals? That's assuming you have other pitchers to put in instead.

Pitching isn't running. In MLB, college, and HS, the good baseball/softball teams have one and only one very talented pitcher. Other than the super elite softball teams (Bev Bandits, Batbusters, etc.), TB teams with two great pitchers are very rare.

True story: There was a kid in Illinois who pitched for Michigan. In HS she threw 65MPH+ with tremendous control. She had perfect games and set the mark for strikeouts. She and her CF wer named All-State. Guess how many putouts her CF had for a 30 game HS season? *FOUR*. No one could hit her. My point? When a kid *good*, there is rarely anyone around who can compete with her.

In baseball, coaches cannot pitch the kid more than "X" innings. It is either (a) against the rules or (b) against the pitcher's contract.

In softball, there is no such rule, so coaches have no problem over-pitching a kid. (I did it myself when I was young and stupid.)