Messing with stats in Gamechanger

[reagansdaddy]

For the most part, what you described is a hit at ANY level. Beating a throw where there was no misplay of a routine chance is a hit every time. A ball hit unusually hard OR soft can also easily require more than ordinary effort. Misjudging a fly ball in the OF usually isn't an error unless it comes right down on top of a stationary player and they miss it. Even then there are possible exceptions: my DD was playing LF a couple of years ago, and a "can of corn" fly ball was hit in her direction. However, the sun angle matched the fly ball, and even with sunglasses and good technique, she simply couldn't see it in close and it bounced off her shoulder. Anyone who has ever fought to find a ball in the sun would know that's anything but "routine".

If you're going to assess and track errors, it's not a subjective "depending on the player thing" or even playing level. I've seen plenty of beat throws, high bouncers, slow rollers, and hard shots deflecting off D1 college player gloves that were ruled hits. An error is a failure to make a play requiring ordinary effort, not a failure to make an exceptional or even above-average one. Examples of "routine" include a grounder hit at normal infield practice speed close to where an infielder is lined up at normal depth, or a fly ball that the player doesn't have to break out into a sprint to catch. If 1B has to go to max extension to have any chance to catch the ball, and she drops it, it's an error on the throw. If a play is missed, and you would have said "great work" had it been made, it's not an error.

I think your definition of an error is right on the money. However, I will quibble with just a couple things. I do think it's at least partially dependent on playing level. What is routine for a HS player is not routine for my son's 12U team. In that way, I think there can be differences in scoring based on level of play.

I also think it's entirely subjective. MLB Now does a segment every few days where they ask the panelists if a play was a hit or error and then tell them what the official scorer ruled it. There is almost always differences of opinion. Also, for most of us who keep book and follow this forum, we get just one look at a play - usually from ground level. Scorers for pro teams (and college?) get to look at replays before making the call. There are times when even MLB scorers go back and change their minds on a scoring decision even up to a day or so later.

I go with my gut and live with the results. I know that some parents think I am too tough. I also know that I'm fair even when it might hurt our HS girls when it comes to All-District and All-State selections. I also know that we've had scorekeepers in the past at our school who have been ridiculous which means we won't be setting any school records offensively while I am keeping the book. I will occasionally ask someone sitting near me who I trust knows the game what they thought of a play when my kid is batting. I'm a Dad after all and I don't wont to be too hard or too easy on my kid.

 

[uncdrew]

For the most part, what you described is a hit at ANY level. Beating a throw where there was no misplay of a routine chance is a hit every time. A ball hit unusually hard OR soft can also easily require more than ordinary effort. Misjudging a fly ball in the OF usually isn't an error unless it comes right down on top of a stationary player and they miss it. Even then there are possible exceptions: my DD was playing LF a couple of years ago, and a "can of corn" fly ball was hit in her direction. However, the sun angle matched the fly ball, and even with sunglasses and good technique, she simply couldn't see it in close and it bounced off her shoulder. Anyone who has ever fought to find a ball in the sun would know that's anything but "routine".

If you're going to assess and track errors, it's not a subjective "depending on the player thing" or even playing level. I've seen plenty of beat throws, high bouncers, slow rollers, and hard shots deflecting off D1 college player gloves that were ruled hits. An error is a failure to make a play requiring ordinary effort, not a failure to make an exceptional or even above-average one. Examples of "routine" include a grounder hit at normal infield practice speed close to where an infielder is lined up at normal depth, or a fly ball that the player doesn't have to break out into a sprint to catch. If 1B has to go to max extension to have any chance to catch the ball, and she drops it, it's an error on the throw. If a play is missed, and you would have said "great work" had it been made, it's not an error.

Agreed.

I played baseball and watched MLB for decades, starting as a little rug rat.

So I can immediately tell someone if it's a hit or an error. But wow, was it hard to teach this to other parents new to the game.

 

[reagansdaddy]

Agreed.

I played baseball and watched MLB for decades, starting as a little rug rat.

So I can immediately tell someone if it's a hit or an error. But wow, was it hard to teach this to other parents new to the game.

My wife is a more novice fan. Since I can't be in two places at once during travel ball, she will be keeping the book for my son's team this season when I am with my daughter. During the school ball season, we have been working on this. It's funny sometimes when we disagree. I may need a divorce lawyer before the school season is over!!!

The hardest part hasn't been errors. She has a mental block on the difference between passed balls and wild pitches - mixes them up constantly!

 

[Rick M]

An error is a failure to make a play requiring ordinary effort, not a failure to make an exceptional or even above-average one.

DD played an indoor tournament in February. First batter of the game, she's at SS. A sinking liner gets hit right at her, lands about a foot in front of her, and ricochets straight up in the air, over her head, and lands a foot behind her. HC doing GameChanger gives her an error. Meh.

 

[Strike2]

What is routine for a HS player is not routine for my son's 12U team. In that way, I think there can be differences in scoring based on level of play.

I understand what you mean. That's why I used the reference point of "routine" as a grounder hit at normal infield practice speed close to where an infielder is lined up at normal depth, or a fly ball that the player doesn't have to break out into a sprint to catch. As the infield practice speed of HS is greater than 12U, that definition works at pretty much any level.

Some people try to gauge an error by whether the player was fast enough to get there or one kid's glove is better than another. I think that's flat-out wrong, and the more subjective analysis that's removed, the fairer it gets.

I forgot my best test of all...if you know what you're looking at, and have any question or debate as to whether it was an error, always give the hitter the benefit of the doubt. Some youth ball scorekeepers act like it's money out of their pocket if they award at hit.

 

[Strike2]

DD played an indoor tournament in February. First batter of the game, she's at SS. A sinking liner gets hit right at her, lands about a foot in front of her, and ricochets straight up in the air, over her head, and lands a foot behind her. HC doing GameChanger gives her an error. Meh.

That's why I think that if scorekeepers don't have actual playing experience in HS or as an adult, they should have to handle some grounders and fly balls before handling a scorebook!

 

[_MIA_]

That's why I think that if scorekeepers don't have actual playing experience in HS or as an adult, they should have to handle some grounders and fly balls before handling a scorebook!

Sometimes too much experience is not good either..in that case as a former SS I would have said another half step in and she could have gotten the short hop and had no issues...

 

[Strike2]

Sometimes too much experience is not good either..in that case as a former SS I would have said another half step in and she could have gotten the short hop and had no issues...

A coaching point, but definitely outside the criteria for putting a fielding error in the scorebook.

 

[_MIA_]

A coaching point, but definitely outside the criteria for putting a fielding error in the scorebook.

Not if it was my kid playing SS ....j/k

 

[Gambler Bob]

I feel fortunate that the team I coach has a parent that does Gamechanger for us. She also does a very good job at it. I have only had to go in and edit stats one time all season.

Batter hits a line drive into right field, while rounding first the runner runs into the first baseman and falls, no obstruction was called and the runner is thrown out at first. After the game was over one of the parents informed me that the batter did not get credited with a hit for that at bat. I had no issue with the parent informing me, and certainly don't think the parent was being a pain in the a$$.

Also, if the person doing Game Changer was blatantly making a players stats appear worse than they should, as a coach I would like that to be brought to my attention after the game is over.