Look Back Rule

[Westwind]

Then what do you do when the runner on first steals 2nd on the next pitch?

Are we playing the team Ang2bmd is talking about? If you throw down you may/may not get the out but the runner will score, almost always. Even with 2 outs.

Against most teams throw down, take the out if you can get it quick and hold runner at 3 either way. Sometimes get both.

We cover 2B with the SS, and our second baseman moves to intercept the runner if she's jogging. The throw can go to either, and both are very quick. One tag attempt off the catch, and then an immediate throw Home.

Against teams that don’t run it right, of course. If they run it right, it won’t work.

It’s an out at most levels above 11u. I never saw it after 16u. Defenses get good at defending it and the infielders arms get too strong.

See it at 18’s regularly. PGF championship quality teams.

 

[chinamigarden]

Are we playing the team Ang2bmd is talking about? If you throw down you may/may not get the out but the runner will score, almost always. Even with 2 outs.

Against most teams throw down, take the out if you can get it quick and hold runner at 3 either way. Sometimes get both.


Against teams that don’t run it right, of course. If they run it right, it won’t work.

See it at 18’s regularly. PGF championship quality teams.

Why don’t you see it at college?

 

[inumpire]

I will say it again, a runner can stop 1 time or reverse direction after the lookback rule has gone into effect, it clearly states that in the rules. The only time they must continue non stop unless a play is made on them is if they overrun first base toward right field and them turn toward 2nd.

And you can pretty much forget about the travesty of the game clause, if you are going to try and apply that then you better apply it to fake throws, off speed pitches, any trick play etc.

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Thank you

 

[ang2bmd]

Yes it worked @ the pgf championships last year and that organization runs it very very well from 10u to 18u. No matter who they are playing. They also defend it very well so rarely do teams do it against them. Our particular team will run it whenever, just sometimes with different goals. We will also take the out at 2nd if someone tries to steal with 2 outs...we are blessed with 2 top notch catchers. As to why no one does it in college they don't do a lot of things in college that I enjoy watching in travel ball.

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[Comp]

I have done 4 nationals, 12u, 14u and 18u and have yet to see a team attempt to take 2nd on a walk yet at any age level. And as I already said, it stops at 14 around my area because teams learn to defend it. If a team can defend that offensive tactic they are also good enough to defend a runner stealing 2nd with a runner on 3rd.

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[Westwind]

Why don’t you see it at college?

Great question, especially since some college teams are built on elite speed. The answer is probably because it’s non-traditional. Softball people can’t stand innovation. Baseball people are worse.

And you do see It...... sort of. The rules are slightly different but that shouldn’t matter. Katie Reed did a deal that was more like a delay, would over run the bag at 1, wait for ss/2b to move back toward their positions and p to turn her back. As she moseyed back to 1 she would break for 2. (It’s arguable whether this is legal except NCAA because she is going back to bag.). The base running in SEC is so much better than all the other sb I have watched. I suspect it’s similar in PAC10, I don’t watch west coast sb much.

I‘m telling you.... this works. Everyone harumphs about it every time it comes up but everyweekend there are teams doing it in PGF and it keeps working.

The master of this is Bill Conroy. His teams run bases with wild abandon and attack the defense constantly. He gets runners thrown out regularly and he just doesn’t care, they keep coming at you. It is a blast to watch.

I saved some videos somewhere. I tried to find them last night, I’ll look again if I have a chance today.

 

[BlaineAB]

Great question, especially since some college teams are built on elite speed. The answer is probably because it’s non-traditional. Softball people can’t stand innovation. Baseball people are worse.

And you do see It...... sort of. The rules are slightly different but that shouldn’t matter. Katie Reed did a deal that was more like a delay, would over run the bag at 1, wait for ss/2b to move back toward their positions and p to turn her back. As she moseyed back to 1 she would break for 2. (It’s arguable whether this is legal except NCAA because she is going back to bag.). The base running in SEC is so much better than all the other sb I have watched. I suspect it’s similar in PAC10, I don’t watch west coast sb much.

I‘m telling you.... this works. Everyone harumphs about it every time it comes up but everyweekend there are teams doing it in PGF and it keeps working.

The master of this is Bill Conroy. His teams run bases with wild abandon and attack the defense constantly. He gets runners thrown out regularly and he just doesn’t care, they keep coming at you. It is a blast to watch.

I saved some videos somewhere. I tried to find them last night, I’ll look again if I have a chance today.

Videos would be great!

 

[Westwind]

Start watching Bandits games on YouTube. It won’t take long before you see one of the many variations of this.

My point isn’t to be right here. My point here is that not enough teams take advantage of it. It is a great way to score runs in low scoring games.

It is my guess that most people see base runners as individuals. They see it as what one runner should do. When two runners protect each other and you think of them as a team not individuals, it opens up a completely different aspect to the game.

Yet all the old baseball dinosaurs elbow their way to the front to say it won’t work. They refuse to open their mind to the idea that this might be something that will help them win games.

 

[ang2bmd]

@Westwind that was one of the best descriptions of Bill Conroy's bandit style I've ever heard...."wild abandon" love it!

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[GunnerShotgun]

Yet all the old baseball dinosaurs elbow their way to the front to say it won’t work. They refuse to open their mind to the idea that this might be something that will help them win games.

I think most people haven't seen this executed by a high level team. I have seen it and it's impressive.

Those that think you can simply "stop it" haven't seen it executed properly. I have seen a couple of teams/orgs do this as a part of their offensive philosophy.

It's akin to playing a basketball team that full court presses the whole game. Sure you can break the press a lot of the time but they will get you eventually.

College coaches are risk adverse...don't look to them for innovation...