Look back rule question

[ang2bmd]

Hmmm we play those teams too. Clearly never came up against you because I would definitely remember players yelling at umpires about what to call. To each their own.

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[marriard]

Easy out call for any reasonable softball umpiring crew.

 

[Big Daddy Michigan]

You've got it right, but that's a lot going on for a two man crew. My money says most miss that.

Good umps don't, especially if they know that's what you're trying to do.

We used to defend it that way. We'd have our pitcher turn her back to the runner at third. They would usually start edging off and then stand waiting to go on the throw. If they didn't we'd snap throw to 2nd when the BR was between 5-10 feet. The hope is to get the out and hold the runner. If the runner on 3 is at a dead stop on the base at the time of the throw, it's an easy catch, tag, and look to wheel home.

If we had umps who were unfamiliar to us we'd tell them this strategy prior to the game so they'd look for it.

 

[RIZZARIJOE]

Runner on third, batter walks. Catcher throws ball back to pitcher as batter runs to first. Once runner touches first, LBR in effect; BR continues to second. Pitcher holds the ball, staring at runner on third, not making any motion or attempt. While BR is running to second, runner on third remains stopped a few feet off third base (presumably waiting for pitcher to throw to second so she can run home). Does the LBR apply to runner on third while BR is running to second? Should she be immediately ruled out when she doesn't immediately go back to third or advance to home?

Yes and yes!! You are correct in your assertion that the LBR comes into effect once the batter/runner becomes a runner (when reaching first). I know a lot of my fellow umps screw this up. The runner at third should be called out immediately unless the pitcher is making or simulating a play at third. Here's the million-dollar question for you: what if the plate umpire calls the runner out at third, what happens to the runner at second if she's off the bag and clearly violating the LBR? The answer is nothing. You can only have one LBR violation on one play. I had to edit this because my post wasn't clear. You can only have one violation per play on the LBR because once you call it, the ball becomes dead and all other runners must return to their base.

 

[Strike2]

Good umps don't, especially if they know that's what you're trying to do.

We used to defend it that way. We'd have our pitcher turn her back to the runner at third. They would usually start edging off and then stand waiting to go on the throw. If they didn't we'd snap throw to 2nd when the BR was between 5-10 feet. The hope is to get the out and hold the runner. If the runner on 3 is at a dead stop on the base at the time of the throw, it's an easy catch, tag, and look to wheel home.

If we had umps who were unfamiliar to us we'd tell them this strategy prior to the game so they'd look for it.

Understand that strategy, but that's not what I'm talking about. It's the runner momentarily off 3B while all the action is between 1B and 2B with the ball in the circle. The LBR call...

 

[GunnerShotgun]

And remember, runner at three has to go back, it doesn’t say she has to hurry, lol

This. You have to "decide" one way or another.

Teams "decide" at varying speeds (in order to exploit the defense).

 

[Gambler Bob]

Agree with Strike3, does get missed a lot!

And remember, runner at three has to go back, it doesn’t say she has to hurry, lol

That last sentence is very key to the LBR. We teach the runner on third to go back to the base very slowly. They just take baby steps back to third base. Very rare for a runner to get called for the LBR on our team.

 

[CoachJD]

Thats obnoxious and could be considered unsportsmanlike and trying to show up an umpire resulting in a warning and or an ejection. I have never seen anything like that in high level softball and would suggest players leave umpiring to the umpires

Also a fielder should never show the umpire the ball after making a tag (or, say, on a diving catch). After all, the umpire can see if she has the ball or not and it's just showing him up by doing so.

 

[BB875]

Unfortunately not all umpires know the rule. I had a field umpire screw this up in a HS regional final game. Our base runner was called out when the pitcher raised her arm to make an attempt. He said the pitcher was in the circle and the runner is out. Completely wrong, but when both umps get together and call her out what do you do? W won 1-0, but talk about a hose job in a huge game! My biggest complaint overall with umpires is consistency in many different aspects of the game. This LBR gets messed up all the time. As a coach, how do you handle it?

 

[SoulFY]

Unfortunately not all umpires know the rule. I had a field umpire screw this up in a HS regional final game. Our base runner was called out when the pitcher raised her arm to make an attempt. He said the pitcher was in the circle and the runner is out. Completely wrong, but when both umps get together and call her out what do you do? W won 1-0, but talk about a hose job in a huge game! My biggest complaint overall with umpires is consistency in many different aspects of the game. This LBR gets messed up all the time. As a coach, how do you handle it?

Not really much you can do. Other then talking calmly like an adult and not yelling and screaming to try to get your point across. But after that, you can only do things about things you can control. Just have to move on and think about the next pitch to call.