look back rule on ball 4

[Momo'sDad]

If the ball has been returned to the pitcher and the lead runner is just "hanging out" down the line from 3B, is she liable to be put out by a throw and tag before the B-R reaches 1B?

 

[MTR]

If the ball has been returned to the pitcher and the lead runner is just "hanging out" down the line from 3B, is she liable to be put out by a throw and tag before the B-R reaches 1B?

Yes, the ball is live

 

[smashdad]

So in this situation, with a runner on third and the batter walks, the ball is returned to the pitcher in the circle but the batter runner never stops and heads for second, does the runner on third have to commit to return to third or try for home as soon as the batter runner touches first as long as the pitcher does not make a play on either of them? My thinking is to have my pitcher walk to the back of the circle with the ball without making a play on either runner. If the runner on third breaks for home when the batter runner reaches first, then throw her out. If she does not break for home then she immediately has to return to third where she has to stay until we make a play on the batter runner or throw the next pitch. We then wait until the batter runner is two thirds of the way to second base and throw her out. If the runner on third breaks for home once we make a play on the batter runner, we now have a good chance at her as well since she now has to run 60 feet. Is my thinking sound here? Could there be a situation where the runner on third is called out for violating the look back rule and we also throw the runner out at second?

 

[Westwind]

So in this situation, with a runner on third and the batter walks, the ball is returned to the pitcher in the circle but the batter runner never stops and heads for second, does the runner on third have to commit to return to third or try for home as soon as the batter runner touches first as long as the pitcher does not make a play on either of them?

Yes. Runner on 3 has to go back or go home when ball is in circle and batter runner touches 1st.

have my pitcher walk to the back of the circle with the ball without making a play on either runner. If the runner on third breaks for home when the batter runner reaches first, then throw her out. If she does not break for home then she immediately has to return to third where she has to stay until we make a play on the batter runner or throw the next pitch. We then wait until the batter runner is two thirds of the way to second base and throw her out. If the runner on third breaks for home once we make a play on the batter runner, we now have a good chance at her as well since she now has to run 60 feet. Is my thinking sound here? Could there be a situation where the runner on third is called out for violating the look back rule and we also throw the runner out at second?

This is a textbook way to defend this.

I’ll add this: be aware that many umpires will not know how to handle this. Many times they will call the batter/runner out. If you (on defense) argue that the batter/runner was out of the basepath or was in violation of lookback and should be out, you would be wrong but you will get that out about half the time in a geography that doesn’t see this play run all the time.

You will only get that call once per weekend though. The umpires will discuss it after it happens and will know the rules the next game.

 

[smashdad]

Awesome, thanks for the feed back!

 

[Westwind]

Until you practice this I would recommend having a mi’er walk the br back to 1.

If you are playing a team that knows how to run it well, 1) the run will score 2) the br will be safe at 1.

 

[The Man In Blue]

So in this situation, with a runner on third and the batter walks, the ball is returned to the pitcher in the circle but the batter runner never stops and heads for second, does the runner on third have to commit to return to third or try for home as soon as the batter runner touches first as long as the pitcher does not make a play on either of them? Sort of, yes. The runner is allowed one stop/change of direction. If the runner is stopped when the BR touches first, that is her stop. She must immediately go one way or the other. That assuming NO play is made on any runner.

My thinking is to have my pitcher walk to the back of the circle with the ball without making a play on either runner. If the runner on third breaks for home when the batter runner reaches first, then throw her out. If she does not break for home then she immediately has to return to third where she has to stay until we make a play on the batter runner or throw the next pitch. We then wait until the batter runner is two thirds of the way to second base and throw her out. If the runner on third breaks for home once we make a play on the batter runner, we now have a good chance at her as well since she now has to run 60 feet. Is my thinking sound here? Seems to be sound thinking, but (depending on your team) I don’t know that I would call getting the runner going home “a good chance.”

Could there be a situation where the runner on third is called out for violating the look back rule and we also throw the runner out at second? No, a LBR violation is an immediate dead ball. The runner goes back to first.

Hopefully helpful tips in red.

 

[coachjames]

This last weekend at a tournament, USA rules 12u. Runner on 3b. Batter gets ball 4 and trots down to 1st. my runner on 3b is 15ft or so down 3b line. Batter is half way to first and field ump calls runner on 3rd out for look back rule. I asked for time and asked if I could talk to the field umpire who made the call, plate umpire said go ahead. I asked( politely and in a calm manner because I know screaming and yelling gets you no where) that shouldn't the look back rule take effect once the batter/runner touches first base, and not just when the pitcher receives the ball back in the circle? The base umpire proceeded to loudly tell me runner is out and there is nothing to question. I ask if we could confer with the plate umpire and the plate umpire agrees with base umpire and says the out stands. again I ask about that the LBR doesn't take effect till the runner touches 1st and both umpires said they have never heard of such a thing. I asked to protest the call and they both say I cant and loudly yell play ball to my face. Again I asked to protest on grounds of misapplication of the LBR and again was told I could not and to play ball...
not wanting to cause a bigger scene than they already had I conceded and continued with the game. after the game the other teams coaches agreed with my assessment of the rule and was dumbfounded that I wasn't allowed to protest a call right or wrong.
Did I have this right or was I misunderstanding that part of the LBR?

Someone should of got the tournament director or the Uic the rule no matter what if the pitcher has the ball in the circle the runners must go back emmetly

 

[The Man In Blue]

Someone should of got the tournament director or the Uic the rule no matter what if the pitcher has the ball in the circle the runners must go back emmetly

Sorry, coach, today just isn’t your day. That’s 0/2.

Again, the rule in its entirety has been posted earlier in the thread for for reading pleasure.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

Yes. Runner on 3 has to go back or go home when ball is in circle and batter runner touches 1st.

But it doesn't say how fast you to go bck (or go home). This is how you exploit the rule...