look back rule on ball 4

[rebeldesign]

This last weekend at a tournament, USA rules 12u. Runner on 3b. Batter gets ball 4 and trots down to 1st. my runner on 3b is 15ft or so down 3b line. Batter is half way to first and field ump calls runner on 3rd out for look back rule. I asked for time and asked if I could talk to the field umpire who made the call, plate umpire said go ahead. I asked( politely and in a calm manner because I know screaming and yelling gets you no where) that shouldn't the look back rule take effect once the batter/runner touches first base, and not just when the pitcher receives the ball back in the circle? The base umpire proceeded to loudly tell me runner is out and there is nothing to question. I ask if we could confer with the plate umpire and the plate umpire agrees with base umpire and says the out stands. again I ask about that the LBR doesn't take effect till the runner touches 1st and both umpires said they have never heard of such a thing. I asked to protest the call and they both say I cant and loudly yell play ball to my face. Again I asked to protest on grounds of misapplication of the LBR and again was told I could not and to play ball...
not wanting to cause a bigger scene than they already had I conceded and continued with the game. after the game the other teams coaches agreed with my assessment of the rule and was dumbfounded that I wasn't allowed to protest a call right or wrong.
Did I have this right or was I misunderstanding that part of the LBR?

 

[testandor]

You were correct. Look Back Rule is in effect when, 1) the ball is live, 2) batter-runner has touched 1B, and 3) the pitcher has possession of the ball in the circle.

 

[Comp]

Umpire cannot refuse a protest, unless your are playing in a tournament with a no protest rule. Once you say the word protest the game stops and the uic should be summoned to the field to make a ruling. I would suggest you contact whoever the tournament director was for that particular tournament and ask for the contact information of whoever the uic was and have a little chat with them. Not only did both umpires not know the rule they had no business telling you they would not accept the protest, again assuming the tournament allowed them.

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[quincy]

You need to yell at umpires, most the fun of the game.

We have a number we can call, be nice to get them correct going forward they made a couple mistakes.

If I am opposing coach I am supporting you during the game not after.

LBR is black and white. Protests rules can be all over the place, should be in writing though.

 

[coachje]

Would love to hear from an ump. My interpretation is that Testandor has it correct for batter that walked, but runner on 3rd should have returned without hesitation when the ball was in control in the circle.

 

[Comp]

Would love to hear from an ump. My interpretation is that Testandor has it correct for batter that walked, but runner on 3rd should have returned without hesitation when the ball was in control in the circle.

The lookback rule does not go into effect until the ball is with pitcher in the circle and the batter runner has reached first base. No, the runner at third doesn't have to do anything until the lookback goes into effect.

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[coachje]

The lookback rule does not go into effect until the ball is with pitcher in the circle and the batter runner has reached first base. No, the runner at third doesn't have to do anything until the lookback goes into effect.

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Learned something new today. Thanks.

 

[The Man In Blue]

And for those that want the citation ...

Rule 8 - Batter runner and runner
Section 7 -The runner is out
T. (Fast pitch) LOOK BACK RULE The “Look Back” rule shall be in effect for all runners when:

1) The ball is live.
2) The batter-runner has reached first base or has been declared out.
3) The pitcher has possession and control of the ball within the pitcher’s circle. The pitcher is considered to be in the pitcher’s circle when both feet are on or within the lines.
(A) When a Runner is legitimately off a base after a pitch or as a result of a batter completing a turn at bat, and while the pitcher has control of the ball within the eight foot radius of the pitcher’s plate, the runner may stop once then must immediately return to the base or attempt to advance to the next base.
(B) Once the runner stops at a base for any reason the runner will be declared out if leaving the base.
(C) Responsibilities of the batter-runner after reaching first base, and while the pitcher has control of the ball within the eight foot radius of the pitcher’s plate, including a base on balls or a dropped third strike, are as follows:
[1] A batter runner who rounds first base toward second base may stop once, but then must immediately non-stop return to to first base or attempt to advance non-stop to second base.
[2] A batter-runner who over-runs first base toward right field, turns left and immediately stops, must then return non-stop to first base or attempt to advance non-stop to second base.
[3] A batter-runner who over-runs first base toward right field, turns left and moves directly toward second base and stops, is committed to second base and must advance non-stop to second base.
[4] A batter-runner who over-runs first base toward right field, turns left and moves back toward the infield in any direction except directly toward second base, is committed to first base and must return non-stop to first base.
[5] A batter-runner who over-runs first base toward right field, and turns right, is committed to first base and must return non-stop to first base.

Effect - Section 7T[A-C]
(1) The ball is dead.
(2) The runner is out.
(3) When more than one runner is off base, only one runner is called out.
(4) All other runners are returned to the last touched base.

Exception - Section 7T[A-C]: The runner will not be declared out if:
(1) A play is made on any runner. A fake throw is considered a play.
(2) The pitcher no longer has possession of the ball within th eight foot radius, or
(3) The pitcher releases the ball on a pitch to the batter.

 

[djcarter1966]

Some tournaments and leagues have no protest rules so I would simply make sure you know the rule ahead of time.

But this is 100% a misapplication of the rule and easily winnable protest.

 

[kingsoda]

You need to yell at umpires, most the fun of the game.

We have a number we can call, be nice to get them correct going forward they made a couple mistakes.

If I am opposing coach I am supporting you during the game not after.

LBR is black and white. Protests rules can be all over the place, should be in writing though.

Agree with point no. 3. Had this happen earlier this year at a U12 game, umpire called the other team for a lookback violation. I was in the third base dugout and when the third base coach called time and went up to confer, I went right up with him. The umpire was reasonable and when we reminded him that the BR had to reach first for the LBR to go into effect, he reversed the call.

But that was a case of 3 adults just wanting to get the call right and move on - perhaps a rare occurrence.