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Jul 14, 2008
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If you are asking about getting to this position, then yes it does matter how you get there. It’s called backward (reverse) chaining. Using reverse chaining to train athletic motor skills allows the students body AND brain to learn in two ways by mirroring the intended action. Reverse chaining is something I wrote about in my very first post on Internal Rotation.

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Apr 17, 2019
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If you are asking about getting to this position, then yes it does matter how you get there. It’s called backward (reverse) chaining. Using reverse chaining to train athletic motor skills allows the students body AND brain to learn in two ways by mirroring the intended action. Reverse chaining is something I wrote about in my very first post on Internal Rotation.

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I meant full motion pitch... we got derailed with taking the ball up the front side. If my finish looks like that ^ does it matter that I got there with the ball facing the inside or outside of the circle from 6-12 up the front side?
 
Jul 14, 2008
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So what I’m doing on the way back is VERY IMPORTANT to what I’m going to do on the way forward because it’s a mirrored action. Namely, externally rotating my forearm EARLY on the way up helps my brain and body learn WHERE and HOW TO INTERNALLY ROTATE on the way down.

External lock it.gifBack and thru lock it.gif
 
Jul 14, 2008
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I meant full motion pitch... we got derailed with taking the ball up the front side. If my finish looks like that ^ does it matter that I got there with the ball facing the inside or outside of the circle from 6-12 up the front side?

Oh ok, full motion. Bottom line, there are many positions/actions on the way to that position that can be hugely detrimental to the goal. So saying “I don’t care how you get there” is a little to broad in my opinion. That said, it’s probably more accurate to say “there are more ways then one” to get there.
 
Jul 14, 2008
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So let’s do an experiment regarding hand position and figure out why many top pitchers take the ball up facing in. Stand away from, but facing a wall, and take the ball up the circle facing inward and stop at the top or just barely to the back your head.

The ball (and your thumb) should be facing your opposite shoulder at this point. Now, without DOING ANYTHING to your hand/arm position, turn sideways to the wall like a pitcher turns sideways to the target. Where is your thumb pointing now? Yep straight at the catcher. The optimum position to start down the back with ZERO twisting or interruption.

Now do exactly the same experiment with the ball facing out on the way up. If you do the exact same thing, the ball will be facing the ground when you turn sideways away from the wall.

Why would anyone want create a “timed twisting move” over the top to get the ball to face forward or out, then up at 9:00, and interrupt the momentum with any part of that requirement, especially when your asking someone to make the fastest arm circle possible with as little circular momentum disruption as possible.

It’s funny because I was just watching a YouTube clip of Bill advocating to a student to make sure she turns the ball out at the top, but when he throws the ball in full circle demos throughout the video his ball is facing in, then dead forward at the top.

Not a knock on his coaching abilities because he’s a very good instructor, but I will say that I use information like this to verify my teaching methods.
 
Aug 21, 2008
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I will advocate turning the hand out (ball to 3rd) if the pitcher has bullet spin caused by the palm and wrist curled.... then at the release, there is no snap, only a turn of the wrist creating bullet spin. I find that having them exaggerate the wrist outward helps them to uncurl the wrist for a natural release and straight rotation. IF someone has their wrist curled at the top (12:00 position) but uncurls it on the downswing (getting straight rotation) then there's no issue.
 

BigSkyHi

All I know is I don't know
Jan 13, 2020
1,385
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Oh ok, full motion. Bottom line, there are many positions/actions on the way to that position that can be hugely detrimental to the goal. So saying “I don’t care how you get there” is a little to broad in my opinion. That said, it’s probably more accurate to say “there are more ways then one” to get there.
Words do matter.

Page 13 - You said - Actually Sky claimed that turning the ball outward toward 3rd around nose level on the way up the front the circle was something MANY MANY high level pitchers and pitching coaches do to "unlock the elbow"

Page 3 - I said "Notice how soon the fingers and ball are pointed to the 3rd base line (keeps the elbow unlocked)”
Page 8 - I said "They usually call it keep the ball on the outside.. It usually turns about nose level.”
Page 10 - I said "And yes there are excellent instructors that teach turning the ball to the outside of the circle early."

Maybe I should have said in the beginning was “a slight turn of the throwing hand to the baseline to get the ball outside the circle may help to keep your elbow unlocked at 9 oclock”.
 

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