Ll playoff roster rules

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Jan 6, 2009
165
0
Texas
mitts60, good move. Some years back when my dds were younger, LL contacted me about getting LL started in our city. I said, 'sounds great - explain LL rules for girls - I am somewhat familiar with the boys rules'. He told me the rules - I said 'No I asked for the girls rules' - they were the same. I told him to call me back when they get softball figured out. I had many ex-LL girls that came to try out for my travel team - not one made the team - too weak competition, LL kids were behind travel kids, usually by the number of years they had spent in LL.
 
May 9, 2008
443
16
Hartford, CT
mitts60, good move. Some years back when my dds were younger, LL contacted me about getting LL started in our city. I said, 'sounds great - explain LL rules for girls - I am somewhat familiar with the boys rules'. He told me the rules - I said 'No I asked for the girls rules' - they were the same. I told him to call me back when they get softball figured out. I had many ex-LL girls that came to try out for my travel team - not one made the team - too weak competition, LL kids were behind travel kids, usually by the number of years they had spent in LL.

I'm not sure I think this is really a fair statement. Although LL can definitely be less skilled, it can also be high level (LL World Series players, tournaments, All Stars).
We have several All star teams in this State that would KILL 75% of the Travel teams.
MY DD is 12U Travel and we have played some pretty weak Travel teams (many of which our town LL teams could have beaten).

While I agree that LL may be weaker in areas, it may be due to the fact that some of these players just want to play part time.
I have observed some pretty lame coaches in both Travel and LL, and visa versa.

It is definitely time to update girls versus boys rules....

Instead of bashing it, why not help make it stronger? Would make for more skilled Travel teams, better competition all the way around? More players involved creates more support for the game all over.
Win Win ...
 
Jun 6, 2009
240
0
I'm not sure I think this is really a fair statement. Although LL can definitely be less skilled, it can also be high level (LL World Series players, tournaments, All Stars).
We have several All star teams in this State that would KILL 75% of the Travel teams.
MY DD is 12U Travel and we have played some pretty weak Travel teams (many of which our town LL teams could have beaten).

While I agree that LL may be weaker in areas, it may be due to the fact that some of these players just want to play part time.
I have observed some pretty lame coaches in both Travel and LL, and visa versa.

It is definitely time to update girls versus boys rules....

Instead of bashing it, why not help make it stronger? Would make for more skilled Travel teams, better competition all the way around? More players involved creates more support for the game all over.
Win Win ...



I have watched the LL WS in softball on TV and IMO it is not remotely comparable to ASA. I felt it was high level rec at best.
 
Jul 20, 2008
17
0
The big problem with Little League Softball is that it is a poor step sister to the baseball sanction. It is an extension of the old "town ball" game. Where the best from our town will take on the best of your town. The "all stars" concept causes way more problems than it solves.

Too many arcane rules for no apparant reason for my taste. Pitching rules that water the game down by forcing you to have three good pitchers to excell in the tournament. As a manager you have to be Joe Torre to get all your players the required playing time (how about roster batting!). Three years ago, the 12's were playing with a 11" ball! Don't steal until the ball passes the batter!?

They can't decide if they want to be a rec or a competitive program. Play part of the year as rec. Choose your "best" players and go play a real tournament for the prize of playing on ESPN.

Here's a wager I'll make. Check the roster of the LL Champion this year against the USSSA website and you will find that a majority of the players were playing that sanction quite a bit.

I tried to make changes but I wanted to rock the boat so I never was "elected" to the board.

Life is more enjoyable without LL.
 
Jan 6, 2009
165
0
Texas
I'm not sure I think this is really a fair statement. Although LL can definitely be less skilled, it can also be high level (LL World Series players, tournaments, All Stars).
We have several All star teams in this State that would KILL 75% of the Travel teams.
MY DD is 12U Travel and we have played some pretty weak Travel teams (many of which our town LL teams could have beaten).

While I agree that LL may be weaker in areas, it may be due to the fact that some of these players just want to play part time.
I have observed some pretty lame coaches in both Travel and LL, and visa versa.

It is definitely time to update girls versus boys rules....

Instead of bashing it, why not help make it stronger? Would make for more skilled Travel teams, better competition all the way around? More players involved creates more support for the game all over.
Win Win ...

I wasnt trying to be fair, I was trying to be accurate. Regarding trying to make it stronger, I did - I suggested that LL go and watch real softball, understand it at the upper levels, gold, state tournaments of large state softball playoffs, college ball, figure out how the game is really played and then come back. Get rid of ignorant rules like the stealing rule - what has that to do with reality - when I go to watch players in areas that have a lot of LL, I can spot LL players by their baserunning, right off the bat, they are leaving late. The pitching rules have absolutely nothing to do with trying to not hurt the pitchers, but everything to do with watering down the competition. If LL is worried about injury, explain the helmets and facemasks. But the people that were trying to get LL around here going, just quit calling me.

There is another factor that is not LL's fault that will cause some players to avoid the zip code based LL rules. One of the reasons that some players do not want to play in their local area is local area politics. There is nothing more refreshing after dealing with small town politics than going to or starting up a travel team and going to play where ever you want to. In LL, you have to play on the team in your local zip code area. In travel, you can find the team that matches you the best, that has the same goals you have. After unsuccessfully fighting local political nonsense and leaving and going to play with a talent based team rather than zip code based, it was nice to be in tournaments where we would see the old area team. We never played them, they never lasted long enough in any tournament to get that far, but I remember thinking "Happiness is watching the XXXXXXXX's going home on Saturday."

That was all long ago now, some of those kids now play on my travel team and once in a while the old days come up, though I tend to walk away from the conversations.
 
Jul 20, 2008
17
0
I wasnt trying to be fair, I was trying to be accurate. Regarding trying to make it stronger, I did - I suggested that LL go and watch real softball, understand it at the upper levels, gold, state tournaments of large state softball playoffs, college ball, figure out how the game is really played and then come back. Get rid of ignorant rules like the stealing rule - what has that to do with reality - when I go to watch players in areas that have a lot of LL, I can spot LL players by their baserunning, right off the bat, they are leaving late. The pitching rules have absolutely nothing to do with trying to not hurt the pitchers, but everything to do with watering down the competition. If LL is worried about injury, explain the helmets and facemasks. But the people that were trying to get LL around here going, just quit calling me.

There is another factor that is not LL's fault that will cause some players to avoid the zip code based LL rules. One of the reasons that some players do not want to play in their local area is local area politics. There is nothing more refreshing after dealing with small town politics than going to or starting up a travel team and going to play where ever you want to. In LL, you have to play on the team in your local zip code area. In travel, you can find the team that matches you the best, that has the same goals you have. After unsuccessfully fighting local political nonsense and leaving and going to play with a talent based team rather than zip code based, it was nice to be in tournaments where we would see the old area team. We never played them, they never lasted long enough in any tournament to get that far, but I remember thinking "Happiness is watching the XXXXXXXX's going home on Saturday."

That was all long ago now, some of those kids now play on my travel team and once in a while the old days come up, though I tend to walk away from the conversations.

Well Donnie, we're on the same page. Couldn't have put it better myself. I lift a cold beverage to you tonight if you will do the same for me.

I almost had forgotten the politics of picking All-Stars. Some of the best players sit at home due to the craziness of keeping it "fair".

I say let the League Champion team represent you in the tournament. Make winning the League mean something.
 
Jan 6, 2009
165
0
Texas
Well Donnie, we're on the same page. Couldn't have put it better myself. I lift a cold beverage to you tonight if you will do the same for me.

I almost had forgotten the politics of picking All-Stars. Some of the best players sit at home due to the craziness of keeping it "fair".

I say let the League Champion team represent you in the tournament. Make winning the League mean something.

Mitts60, you got a deal on the cold beverage. Our rec league was built around Pony softball, pretty much fun except for the Pony honchos. But it irritated the local board folk that the league champion got to be the all-star coach and worst of all - he got to pick his coaches. My fatal mistake, I didnt pick the board guys, I took the same coaches that I had all season. So the next year, half way through the season when the board realized that I was going to win it again, they decided to cancel all-stars. So I took my team to go forward - and then was insulted by the question 'So are these kind of girls you are going to play with' (most of my team happened to be mexican) - I said - 'yes, if you have a problem, leave' so some did. I went over to the next town, and recruited 7 girls, all mexican, and we had a very fun season. I recently found that banner 'The All American Girls' - very cool memories.

Great group of kids, I try to go watch them play high school ball as often as I can. One of them, its really hard to believe, a little short round kid with pigtails, wanted to pitch. I seriously doubted it would happen - but my dd and I both told her - 'all it takes is work'. I think she wore her dad into the ground over these years. My wife brought me the paper the other day, the kid was all-district as a pitcher in their district. Its a small size district but she is all-district.
 
May 7, 2008
8,506
48
Tucson
We are in All Stars here. The games haven't started yet. One of my pitchers was complaining that she was in RF. I was encouraging her and saying that I really liked RF and it is really neat when you can throw someone out at 1st.

She and her mother told me that she was running in toward the IF to backup the 2B and an assistant coach screamed at her "to stay put."

It is no wonder some of the girls don't come back.

But, this isn't just LL. It happens every where, because coaches are too lazy to read and watch and learn something.
 
Jul 20, 2008
17
0
The best LL "All-Star" team I ever saw was about equal to a middle of the road "B" team. They played a bunch of ASA and USSSA tourneys to "warm up" for the LL World Series. They dominated until the State Tournament when they ran into another team that had done the same thing in the Regionals.

When I was coaching LL, we had three teams in town and they all got to have four players on All-Stars. I had to leave kids at home who were on our team (and at least knew how to bunt and take a sign between pitches) for the "best" from the other two teams. Spent all the practice time on bunting techniques and forcing them to look at me for a sign. Had a parent stick me for the cost of a uniform too.

The next year there were 27 girls wanting to play. I knew with the commitment level of some of the players, we would be playing short most games.

The capper was when two kids age eligible for Minors (9-10) wanted to play Majors (11-12). The board said they could play up but couldn't play All-Stars. Not couldn't play down in All-Stars, couldn't play period. I had enough with them then. Told the Board Member that if the idea of LL was for girls to play ball, they weren't meeting their goal.

I took those two girls plus 10 others and we have been playing "real" softball ever since.
 

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