Kill Play When All Play Apparently Completed

[testandor]

This came up in the Look Back Rule thread, but was really a side discussion.

ArmWhip said:
So if a runner is standing 10ft off second base and the pitcher doesn't want to make a throw what happens, the ump calls time?

MTR replied:
If there is no apparent play, yep. Happens thousands of times a day in the SP game with no issue

ArmWhip then said:
To not have the 'look back' would slow the game down. My pitchers would stare at the runner to make sure she didn't take off for the next base. The umpire, at some point, would have to make a decision that the staredown had gone far enough and call time. Or you would have runners juking back and forth and pitchers faking throws on every pitch.

MTR finished:
Actually, it would speed up the game. There is no BS as you are suggesting.. When all obvious play is finished, the umpires call time and you move on with the game.

This occurs in the SP game thousands of times a day. They play the same amount of inning, score 10 to 30 times the amount of runs and are still done in nearly half the time the FP game takes.

So, the purpose of all that was to say that, after not umpiring a slow pitch game for probably 25 years, I finally did one on Friday night. Bar league, no contact league. Usually one man game, but using 2 for semi's and final. Everything was different! I had the bases and stayed in the B position the entire game. No sliding. If you overrun 2nd or 3rd - can't be tagged out if you beat the throw. Runner can't reverse direction if past the half way point between bases.

But MTR was right. Game went 6 1/2 innings. It would have been a shorter game, but after being down 2 going into the bottom of the 6th, the home team had a 5 run rally and hung on to win 8-5. Still, with that big rally, game lasted only 55 minutes. Lots of runs, much less time, and just as MTR said, every single time that ball was returned to the infield, time was called. But that's because there's no stealing, no coming off the bases, no run downs. Different game, and I don't think you could call the play dead in FP. Unless you're willing to change the rules to give up all the running free that goes on in FP. I, for one, am not.

 

[MTR]

But MTR was right. Game went 6 1/2 innings. It would have been a shorter game, but after being down 2 going into the bottom of the 6th, the home team had a 5 run rally and hung on to win 8-5. Still, with that big rally, game lasted only 55 minutes. Lots of runs, much less time, and just as MTR said, every single time that ball was returned to the infield, time was called. But that's because there's no stealing, no coming off the bases, no run downs. Different game, and I don't think you could call the play dead in FP. Unless you're willing to change the rules to give up all the running free that goes on in FP. I, for one, am not.

There is stealing in real SP softball and they have everything the FP game has except a bunt. I've had games with 30 runs and still be less than an hour. And it is not that unusual for a runner to try to take an extra base on a throw home to stop the runner from 3rd scoring.

Just what is supposed to happen when the pitcher gets the ball in the circle? Seriously, what is supposed to happen once the pitcher has possession of the ball in the circle?

 

[testandor]

Just what is supposed to happen when the pitcher gets the ball in the circle? Seriously, what is supposed to happen once the pitcher has possession of the ball in the circle?

OK..... ?

The only purpose of this post was to acknowledge that the SP game I did had all of the elements you mentioned about SP softball - lots of hitting, lots of runs, all in a very short period of time. AND, that each time the ball was returned to the infield, play was done. All with no issues.

I have no idea why you've become unhinged over this. But, on my way out of this discussion for good, I'll answer your question that was asked twice in a row - for emphasis, I assume.

The same thing that happens on 99% of the plays in FP - the play ends, and they get ready for the next pitch. With the exception of the elite team that someone else mentioned, and the bungling (IMO) way the other elite team's defense handled that one play by paying so much attention to the BR that they allowed the runner from 3rd to score in what had been a scoreless game, EVERY play ends "once the pitcher has possession of the ball in the circle."

That's what's "supposed to happen", and that's what does happen.

I'm out.

 

[The Man In Blue]

 

[wheresmycar]

There is stealing in real SP softball and they have everything the FP game has except a bunt. I've had games with 30 runs and still be less than an hour. And it is not that unusual for a runner to try to take an extra base on a throw home to stop the runner from 3rd scoring.

Just what is supposed to happen when the pitcher gets the ball in the circle? Seriously, what is supposed to happen once the pitcher has possession of the ball in the circle?

Calling time when the ball reaches the circle is 8u rules. Are you suggesting high school and college adopt the 8u running rules?

How can ump call time if runner is not on base? If runner is off the base, which base do they return to when ump calls time? In 8u, there is a line halfway between bases... if runner is past line, they get to advance to next base, otherwise they return to last base. Is that what you are proposing?

 

[MTR]

Calling time when the ball reaches the circle is 8u rules. Are you suggesting high school and college adopt the 8u running rules?

How can ump call time if runner is not on base? If runner is off the base, which base do they return to when ump calls time? In 8u, there is a line halfway between bases... if runner is past line, they get to advance to next base, otherwise they return to last base. Is that what you are proposing?

It has nothing to do with age. This is done thousands a time a day in the SP game. And just in case you don't know, there is stealing in the SP game, has been for nearly 20 years.

When all play is apparently complete and the ball is in possession of a defensive player in the infield, time is declared and the game moves on. Exactly, the same effect the LBR is meant to accomplish just without all the ridiculous teases and games on the base paths.

 

[wheresmycar]

It has nothing to do with age. This is done thousands a time a day in the SP game. And just in case you don't know, there is stealing in the SP game, has been for nearly 20 years.

When all play is apparently complete and the ball is in possession of a defensive player in the infield, time is declared and the game moves on. Exactly, the same effect the LBR is meant to accomplish just without all the ridiculous teases and games on the base paths.

So if player is off base, what base to they return to if ball is in circle, and time is called?

 

[The Man In Blue]

If I understand MTR’s proposal ... time would not be called during a play. A player being off a base is not a play. Time would not be called while a runner is advancing or if a defensive player was in possession and eyeing the runner for a play. Once nothing is going to happen, if the runner is just hanging out and standing still, she would be returned to the base she just passed. If she was wanting to advance, she should have done it already.

Gotta’ say, I kind of like it.

The one part I don’t like is using any defender in the infield as the standard. Typically in middle school baseball we get infielders who get the ball from the out field and ask for time to throw the ball back to the pitcher. This is because they throw the ball away too often. We won’t grant time for that request. Learn to make the easy throw,

 

[WVSteven]

What would trigger the time out? Just the defense possessing the ball in the infield and the runners being still on the bases? I do not like that. My dd took many bases as the ss made a nonchalant throw back to the pitcher. I might lean more in favor if the ball still has to make it to the circle and be controlled by the pitcher. When the LBR would be activated you call time and the runners return to the base previously touched.