is this legal, is it proper?

[kingsoda]

"By rule"? I don't know that one - I'm not trying to be clever, but I don't. What's the penalty for violating it?

 

[The Man In Blue]

I’m with Comp. The problem is that this is being taught in certain sectors now.

Yesterday I worked with a guy who has more years in umpiring than I have on this planet (withholding any theoretical information about any time I may or may not have spent on any other planets) ...

I thought he had a few calls that he kicked due to his positioning. However I was also 80+ feet away watching three other things ... maybe I was wrong. Funny thing was, the coaches grumbled but never even came out to ask. So maybe he was right!

I try to teach new umpires to recognize the situation. Do not be afraid to talk to coaches and go for help when there is a justified reason to do so. I also try to teach them to not be afraid to talk to coaches and then explain why they aren’t going to go for help when that is appropriate. “Just because they ask” is not a good enough reason to go for help; and ”Just because I say so” is not a good enough reason not to. “Just because I think so” does not give me a good reason to interject.

 

[kingsoda]

Fair enough - you talked me off it. The signal is only asking for trouble.

 

[The Man In Blue]

"By rule"? I don't know that one - I'm not trying to be clever, but I don't. What's the penalty for violating it?

 

[The Man In Blue]

"By rule"? I don't know that one - I'm not trying to be clever, but I don't. What's the penalty for violating it?

No worries, totally legit question. Every rule set has some form of this, but here is the NFHS code:

Rule 10 Umpiring
SECTION 1 GENERAL
ART. 4 . . . Any umpire’s decision which involves judgment, such as whether a hit is fair or foul, whether a pitch is a strike or ball, or whether a runner is safe or out, is final. If there is a reasonable doubt about some decision being in conflict with the rules, the coach or captain may ask that the correct ruling be made. The umpire making the decision may ask another umpire for information before making a final decision. The use of videotape by game officials for the purpose of making calls or rendering decisions is prohibited. No umpire shall criticize or interfere with another umpire’s decision unless asked by the one making it. NOTE: The plate umpire sometimes asks for aid from the base umpire when there is a question as to whether a batter’s half-swing is to be called a strike. See 2-11.

 

[kingsoda]

Got it. Thanks TMIB!

 

[Laphoneman]

I’m trying to help my 19 yo son who been umpiing about a year so just asking questions he got reamed out about. He is pu runner steals 2nd close play and bu calls safe. Coaches come out to question call bu not having it all is good. Son goes out to bu another young ump and privately reminded bu that local rules in 10u no head first sliding at any base. To which bu says oh yea I forgot and changed to out call. Thats when offensive dugout emptied on son for overturning pu decision. Apparently it was heated for a while. Was he wrong for giving bu the information on a ground rule that had nothing to do with the judgement call.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Honestly ... and this is just my opinion ... never do something like that during a game. You should be having a post-game meeting, save it for the post-game. I don‘t even like approaching my partner or having my partner approach me to talk during the game.

Innocent intents (like Laphoneman’s example) cause problems. Even if something doesn’t happen as a direct result, the optics of it can completely undermine the other umpire for the rest of the game in the coach’s (or fans’) eyes.

On a bit of a side note — and this may have saved them some headache — If you are going to change a call (which is OK in the right circumstances), go talk to each team’s HC first (do NOT talk to them together) to explain it to them. Then correct the call.

 

[Yanko70]

I may be a bit naive with this topic but it seems to me the intent should not be that you may or may not be showing up another ump or not, or undermine his standing. To me it would seem more important that the correct call is made regardless of responsibility. If you have a better view of a play why does it matter who makes that call. You see it all the time in other sports (and when I reffed football it was fairly common) for one official to either over rule or talk it over if they have the better view. I don't know seems a vestige of some bygone error. Just my humble opinion.

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[MTR]

I may be a bit naive with this topic but it seems to me the intent should not be that you may or may not be showing up another ump or not, or undermine his standing. To me it would seem more important that the correct call is made regardless of responsibility. If you have a better view of a play why does it matter who makes that call. You see it all the time in other sports (and when I reffed football it was fairly common) for one official to either over rule or talk it over if they have the better view. I don't know seems a vestige of some bygone error. Just my humble opinion.

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You've umpired how long? : ) What happens when the intervening umpire is incorrect? And that better view from 80' away is a PT Barnum sell. When it comes to rule applications, the coach has a tool for that. BTW, how has replay helped professional sports especially when they still get it wrong